This topic

All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 17:51:49 GMT

Just clocked up 2 hours on the phone to BT - and a bonus 20mins earlier on hold which was cut off.

Problem: The old bt dt 4000 set top box has given up the ghost. We pay £113 a month for landline, broadband, what was BT Sport etc. A new box is required to get that. We have been with BT since 2015.

Secondary issue: We don't want digital voice so are now 'out of contract' and on a 30 day rolling 'contract' ( BT's words).

BT won't replace the box unless we are 'recontracted' to 24 months. So we can't get a new box. The guy on the phone suggested ebay at the end of the conversation.

I am also at a loss how I can be both out of contract but in contract.

Tertiary issue: The utter shambles of two hours on the phone. Went right round houses, finally through to cancellations as thought sod it. Bloke there gave some options and said digital voice is 'policy', can only opt out if have Homecare / Telecare. I asked can I say I have one? Yes... ! Result!

Sadly no, a proper rude bloke then took over and basically gave me a **bleep** for being a 'liar' (!) and talked over me, allsorts. I pointed out at the start of every BT call it asks the caller to treat staff as you wish to be treated... he apologised.

So, currently £1356 a year and can't get the service.

Any ideas? ( Will a home hub 5 work with a BT Pro box if I spend more cash to upgrade off ebay?! )

I just want a box that works, and keep things as they are. Utterly bonkers situation and BT quality of call handling is down the drain IMHO.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 18:09:31 GMT

Seems bizarre given that a replacement box would only be loaned to you, so remains their property. But sadly typical of the utter contempt with which BT treats their customers. Might be worth asking Citizen's Advice about the legality of billing for a service, but refusing to supply the means to use it. CA deal with Trading Standards issues these days.

Yes, a purchased Pro Box will work with a HH5, but the legal status is questionable given they've only ever been loaned to customers. CEX have them for £105 & at least they have a 2 year guarantee, unlike the unregulated world of Ebay.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

gg30340 — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 18:20:42 GMT

Phone BT again and report that the box is faulty and needs replaced. You are still in contract, a 30 day contract not a fixed term contract. Do not enter into a debate or discussion about any other issue and remain calm and polite.

If the CS rep refuses ask to speak to a supervisor and explain the problem.

If still no joy lodge a complaint then contact the CEO, you will find her email address with an Internet search, and explain the issue to her or rather her team as the email will never get to her but it will get to the executive complaints team.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 18:22:41 GMT

I explained it was faulty, that we have done the resets, tried different cables the lot... not interested. Supervisors brought in, the same as we are 'out of contract'.

Shocking attitude, could not give a toss.

I am awaiting a call back on complaint - will try the CEO as well. Thanks!

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

zulu17 — Mon, 07 Oct 2024 20:06:36 GMT

As you are looking for support whilst on a rolling EETV contract I have moved the thread to the EETV section. I have notified the forum moderation team of the thread.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

DarrenDev — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:23:13 GMT

I assume you're posting on behalf of someone else @shamblesTB as the description of your account doesn't match the account you logged in with, or the broadband connection that you posted from?

Hardware is only loaned as part of a contract. If it dies within contract then it'll be replaced without needing a contract extension, but as you're out of contract you cannot get a replacement. A 30 day notice period doesn't count as a contract.

What is your objection to digital voice? The old voice network is being switched off, so you'll be forced to move eventually anyway. You won't notice any difference, other than improved call quality.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:32:14 GMT

Hi Darren - a lot of wrong assumptions there.

VOL013-891953701935 is the complaint ID if you want to look up the reference, people can have different email addresses.

If you check the account and date of when the set top box was sent out I think it predates the 'loan' change of terms and conditions?

It is not a 30 day notice period, if so, why does it renew every month? I have a recording of the BT person stating it was a '30 day contract' last night as well. People don't just take £113 every month for several months, if not likely years, providing a service without an agreement - that would be very dodgy.

The objection to digital voice is irrelevant and a separate debate.

So, your expert helpful post TLDR?

1. You aint you (wrong)

2. Your stuff aint yours (wrong)

3. You aint in a contract (wrong)

4. Digital voice is great, you are wrong (cheers, no one asked)

Want to try again, as this is yet more rubbish...

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

DarrenDev — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:46:10 GMT

@shamblesTB the email address and internet connection you posted from is different to the account you've provided the complaint reference for - which is also in a different name. So everything I said is correct.

You're not "in contract" - you can cancel everything with 30 days notice. You can call it a rolling contract if you want, but it doesn't qualify you to get a replacement box.

Our records show the T4000 you have was provided 2 weeks after the rules changed, so you will be required to return it.

The TV subscription you're currently paying for is an old package that doesn't give you anything anymore. You're wasting money every month on nothing.

If you took a new contract, you'd get more content for less money.

You have a choice - stick with what you have and buy a box for yourself, or take a new contract (for less money each month) and get access to the latest hardware and best content.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

Midnight_Voice — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:58:29 GMT

@shamblesTB

I'm intrigued by the DV issue too, but for slightly different reasons from @DarrenDev

Under what circumstances were you being pushed to DV, and in such circumstances how were you able to avoid it at all?

Or are people being pushed to DV when taking a new contract for broadband, even when it isn’t a new installation?

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:59:40 GMT

Wow...!

The info on the 'loan' contract stuff came from BT last night as 'it was so old' and terms have changed. Odd "you will be required to return it", I assume this is in the contract that does not exist?!

If you read *I* didn't 'call it' a rolling contract- that is what BT referred to as it last night.

On the package 'giving me nothing'... where to start?! It literally was working fine.

So this month £33.68 was paid for TNT Sport and Entertainment Extra as per the bill. It was fine until a few days ago and was working. Now it can’t currently be used. Next month will be the same, with the same money taken by BT. That has been, and will be, ongoing. No notice period in play or cut off point.

The two solutions provided by BT last night on the phone are:

>> Change what is offered to include Digital Voice and commit to two years of use of service.

>> Go on ebay (yes, that was said when I asked if I could buy a replacement box from BT and told no) and hope a box I buy from a random person works

So forced to commit to a new long term contract and spend perhaps £2712 at current rate (could be cheaper, who knows), and lose something I want to keep in the process… to get something I had fine up to a few days ago and am paying for.

Darren, if you genuinely think that is an acceptable proportional and reasonable resolution to the issue explicitly post it up yourself and I will hit ‘mark as accepted solution.

Personally I think BT's polices are inflexible, not customer orientated, and are aimed at effectively forcing people towards new services and packages with no interest in legacy provision. Likewise, the gaslighting on the phone last night, and even in this thread ('you can call it a rolling contract' / 'doesnt give you anything anymore' etc ) is really low grade.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:04:41 GMT

BT told me it was impossible to 'recontract' or edit / change / renew package without getting Digital Voice.

It is not a new installation, not a new number, nothing. It would be literally renewing for 24 months.

If there is no other option that is a push, forced, whatever you want to call it.

Without renewal and staying on the '30 day contract'* the service remains the same with no digital voice

(* note the only place this has been referenced as a 'notice period' is here. No notice has been given, and if it was, the services would have stopped at the end of the 25th month probably years ago. For entertainment Darren can confirm publicly if he wishes how long this 30 day notice period has lasted... or can retract that duff info!)

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:20:57 GMT

@DarrenDev

Given the apparent mismatch of ID & subscribed package, could this be another crossed service that we saw a while back with that guy that was posting from a TalkTalk IP?

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:26:03 GMT

No mismatch.

I didn't spot anything on posting that said the BT username had to be used on registration nor the same connection. Darren can give me a direct buzz on the mobile number stored, or email address stored. Oddly enough the latter was required to even discuss the account last night, as he knows, BT send the 4 digit pin over.

Likewise can reference the last bill to check the wording of the entertainment package / pricing etc.

He - or anyone from BT - can even pop around for a cuppa if they want and three of us can detail why locally digital voice-esque services have not worked out in the borough in certain circumstances and detail on how we know about that! That is totally aside from the key issue mind, but the kettle is always on.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

DarrenDev — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:34:02 GMT

You're paying for an entertainment extra package every month which doesn't give you access to a single piece of content anymore - just the right to have an EE TV account. You're then paying for a Sport add-on, to give you the sport channels. You could switch to a current sport-only package for less money, or have entertainment+sport and gain access to a LOT more channels.

The TV Boxes aren't free - they need to be paid for. If one was provided to you without contract, you could cancel in 30 days and it would actually cost us money (in having to provide it, and then refurbish when you return it) - the minimum term contract is there to make it commercially viable to provide you with the hardware.

With your current box being faulty, you still have access to all your subscription content - either via hardware you choose to purchase separately, or from smart devices (mobiles, tablets, smart TVs, web site, etc).

The term "contract" here is being thrown around as though it means one thing. It refers here both to the service, and also the initial minimum term. You have a contract for service, but you're no longer within the minimum term, and thus automatically switched to the 30 day notice.

You've mentioned "forced to pay £2712" as though it's an extra cost - it's a cost you would have paid anyway, if you planned to stay with the service. All we're asking for is a little reassurance that you'll stay, and for that you'll be provided with better hardware, a better TV product, and also a better voice product - along with a full warranty on it all for the entire period.

Regarding the forced switch to DV - everyone will be forced eventually. There's no guarantee that your exchange will even offer the old phone service by the end of your contract in 24 months, so better to switch you across now. You'll even be provided with the hardware necessary to convert your existing phones to use it (if required - most modern devices don't need it).

I hope that covers all the points. I'm trying to be helpful and explain everything that appears to be upsetting you, however I appear to be coming across as argumentative / combative. That's not my intention - this is an unfortunate occasional by-product of letting techies talk directly to customers.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:43:03 GMT

Is it possible to break this down to get some clarity and to avoid going into the argumentative reeds...

Firstly;

"You're paying for an entertainment extra package every month which doesn't give you access to a single piece of content anymore"

I did wonder when reviewing the bill last night. No one stepped in on that but ah well, money for nothing.

BT Sport / TNT Sport / Whatever it is this month *is* also being paid on the 'TV & Entertainment' section of the bill. It was being consumed successfully. Can we agree that service exists, there is an er... lets call it an agreement that £18.88 a month is being taken by BT for that, and should therefore be useable ?

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

DarrenDev — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 08:50:41 GMT

@shamblesTB wrote:
BT Sport / TNT Sport / Whatever it is this month *is* also being paid on the 'TV & Entertainment' section of the bill. It was being consumed successfully. Can we agree that service exists, there is an er... lets call it an agreement that £18.88 a month is being taken by BT for that, and should therefore be useable ?

Agreed. It is still usable, via a TV Box that you can choose to purchase separately, or via EE TV / discovery+ apps - available on most platforms. I do understand your point, but I'm hoping that you also understand the commercial unviability of it?

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 09:06:56 GMT

Yes, it would be bonkers to get customers to source their own equipment or pay hundreds on top to access the service. It feels a loaning of the equipment would make a lot of sense (!) Likewise, if the equipment breaks in that service provision period it is swapped out to enable the service to continue?

As a side quest, I have looked this end and can't spot it - can you find out when was the £14.80 a month Entertainment Extra package service ceased from BTs end? I am trying to work out how many months there has been a payment for literally nothing.

Interestingly, if the info on the phone last night is correct, am I right that can't be taken off the bill without a recontract (thus move to DV...) or cancellation?

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

DarrenDev — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 10:28:53 GMT

Like I say, I understand your point. I guess the alternative would have been to cease your service after the 24 month contract, or force you to renew at that point? So some might consider the current setup a more flexible one, even if it does come with a risk of what you're seeing now.

I believe the last channel to disappear from the package would have been AMC in September 2023. You will have been sent an email at the time offering you other options. You're not paying for "nothing", as you couldn't have the Sport add-on without a base TV package - it's just a more expensive way of doing it as you can now take Sport as the base TV package. This will have been offered to you when your previous contract expired.

I can't think of any reason why you couldn't cancel TV/Sport without requiring a recontract.

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

shamblesTB — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 10:40:03 GMT

Is that risk explained? No... its a case of you will be moved to a 30 day rolling contract with everything as-is.

It is interesting in one answer it is "You're paying for an entertainment extra package every month which doesn't give you access to a single piece of content anymore - just the right to have an EE TV account" and now "You're not paying for 'nothing', as you couldn't have the Sport add-on without a base TV package".

It feels a sum somewhere between £0 and £216+ has been paid for something BT withdrew, but has kept and is keeping on billing for. Would that be fair description?

Is it possible to check if that can be corrected without accidentally opting into Digital Voice and a renewal/recontract - or do I need to brave the phones again?

It would also feel sensible to discover if this is a wider issue, I would bet £1 that this is not the only account where people are overpaying for a service that BT should know about.

(This is posted off a different IP again, but it is still me!)

Re: All I want is a replacement settop box - but forced to get digital voice?!

jac_95 — Tue, 08 Oct 2024 10:45:32 GMT

@shamblesTB ,

Re the Digital Voice part: Openreach introduced a stop sell of analogue phone services (PSTN/WLR) in September 2023 so since then renewing, upgrading or switching providers would also mean moving to a digital landline service such as Digital Voice if wanting to have a home voice service.

More on the stop sell at: https://landlinesgo.digital/stop-sell

The Stop Sell policy will kick in on any package renewals or upgrades too.