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Newbie
redherring
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎11-05-2010
0

Using POP3 away from your home broadband

I have just moved over to BT from using Tiscali as my ISP for many years. In the past when I set up a POP3 email account I used the SMTP server of the specific email service for sending my mail OUT. I now discover, but only after asking the question of the help desk, that as a new BT customer I may not use any SMTP sever but 'mail.btinternet.com'. This is fine while I am working from home but presents problems when I am out on the road.

 

I have about 10 email accounts set up on my laptop from which I collect mail daily and then reply to them. Since moving to BT I have set up all the accounts with the BT SMTP server but when I away from home it will not be possible to SEND thru this server. My only option is to wait until I get home to send my mail (And BTW I will not be able to make a second collection during the day before coming home as the mail client will error on the sending. I am using Windows Live Mail and there is no option to *only* collect mail without sending). My other option is to go thru every account individually and reconfigure the SMTP sever (10 times) or I could log into every account via webmail.

 

I am pretty fed up with this state of affairs as it is not documented in BT material. If I'd known that this would be a limitation I would not have gone with BT in the first place. I cannot be the only one with this issue. Clearly anyone using solely their BT email account, for instance, is prevented from using a POP3 client away from their home base.

 

Any ideas?

 

Rob

Expert
IanC
Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎20-02-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

 

redherring wrote:

I have just moved over to BT from using Tiscali as my ISP for many years. In the past when I set up a POP3 email account I used the SMTP server of the specific email service for sending my mail OUT. I now discover, but only after asking the question of the help desk, that as a new BT customer I may not use any SMTP sever but 'mail.btinternet.com'.


This is incorrect. BT don't care which SMTP server you use while you're on a BTBroadband connection. If you're not on a BTBroadband connection, I don't see it as a BT issue.

 

This is fine while I am working from home but presents problems when I am out on the road.

 

I have about 10 email accounts set up on my laptop from which I collect mail daily and then reply to them. Since moving to BT I have set up all the accounts with the BT SMTP server but when I away from home it will not be possible to SEND thru this server.

 

Presumably this is from a non-BT connection ?  If that's the case, you can use something different - an SMTP service provided by whoever's providing the connection for example.

 

[...]

 

Clearly anyone using solely their BT email account, for instance, is prevented from using a POP3 client away from their home base.

 

POP3 ?  I thought your issue was with sending ?

 

Guru
Andy_N
Posts: 3,474
Registered: ‎31-01-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

 


redherring wrote:

I have just moved over to BT from using Tiscali as my ISP for many years. In the past when I set up a POP3 email account I used the SMTP server of the specific email service for sending my mail OUT. I now discover, but only after asking the question of the help desk, that as a new BT customer I may not use any SMTP sever but 'mail.btinternet.com'. This is fine while I am working from home but presents problems when I am out on the road.

 

I have about 10 email accounts set up on my laptop from which I collect mail daily and then reply to them. Since moving to BT I have set up all the accounts with the BT SMTP server but when I away from home it will not be possible to SEND thru this server. My only option is to wait until I get home to send my mail (And BTW I will not be able to make a second collection during the day before coming home as the mail client will error on the sending. I am using Windows Live Mail and there is no option to *only* collect mail without sending). My other option is to go thru every account individually and reconfigure the SMTP sever (10 times) or I could log into every account via webmail.

 

I am pretty fed up with this state of affairs as it is not documented in BT material. If I'd known that this would be a limitation I would not have gone with BT in the first place. I cannot be the only one with this issue. Clearly anyone using solely their BT email account, for instance, is prevented from using a POP3 client away from their home base.

 

Any ideas?

 

Rob


 

Hi Rob.

 

As Ian said, BT doesn't prevent anyone using a non BT smtp server.

 

AFAIK, most ISPs actually prevent emails being sent via their own smtp servers unless connected to that ISP connection. Receipt (i.e. pop3 access) is completely different and virtually none prevent that access.

Did Tiscali actually allow this ? For example, what smtp server were you using when connected to Tiscali ?

 

If you put back the servers you were using, then this should probably still work. If you were receiving errors, can you say what they were ?

Newbie
redherring
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎11-05-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

Thanks for these replies and for the simple solution to my problem.

Last week I set up another new broadband connection at a site I work at but this was an Orange service, not BT. I tried using my desktop client to do my email and noticed that while the mail came in fine under the POP3, the outgoing mail was failing. As I mentioned before I am using 10 different accounts from a variety of different services: Googlemail, Yahoo, Tiscali and a couple of services provided by my web hosting suppliers. While these had worked fine under my Tiscali account they seemed to be failing under Orange. (Actually, as it turned out later, it was only the outgoing Tiscali mail that was failing). After a few calls to the help desk I was advised that I could *only* use the Orange SMTP server for sending mail under the new broadband package. I therefore changed all my accounts so that mail was sent out thru the Orange SMTP sever. For some strange reason I was still getting failures if I used Outlook Express or Outlook (an old version). However, when I changed to using Windows Live the problem disappeared and I am now able to send mail OUT from a variety of accounts with the reply address given as the one attached to the account.

When, this week, I set up a BT broadband line at a different site, I thought that I had better check with the BT helpline whether it had the same policy as Orange. I was informed categorically that I could only use the BT SMTP server (mail.btinternet.com) to send mail OUT. No other SMTP server would work. Naively, I accepted this at face value and did not try setting up any accounts with non-BT SMTP servers. Instead I set up all my accounts using the BT server, as I had done under Orange, but still the outgoing mail failed. It seems that you cannot send mail FROM BTinternet with a reply address different from that associated with the broadband account. I made multiple calls to the help desk and three times operatives used their remote assistance software to take over my screen and check all the settings. Not once did anyone suggest the simple expedient of using, say, the Googlemail SMTP server. On one occasion I even got a help desk supervisor to take over my screen and even he didn't give me an answer.

I had discovered from my own on-line searches that BT appeared to adopt a different policy from Orange when it came to sending out email under a non-BT email address. They require you to *verify* the address first. They give the instructions here... http://www.btyahoo.com/verify. I tried to follow them but the instructions do not line up with the screens you get. It was at this point I got the senior help-desk guy to tandem my screen so he could see what was happening. Even he had to agree that the screens did not match up and it was clear to me by the way his mouse was whizzing around the screen that he had never done this before. However, after a bit of trial and error he got it to work. After declaring your non-BT account, the server sends out an email to the target email account; you log into the target, non-BT account, open the email and copy&paste a ref number into a box on the BT screen. In principle, once you know what to do, its fairly straightforward. However, it didn't work! I still got failures when I tried to send mail from the 'verified' account and I could find no way to list my 'verified' accounts or backtrack and repeat the process.

I even emailed the support people with the query -- more or less the same wording I posted here and, to be fair, I got a phone call pretty quickly following my email. I can't fault them on speed of response. The woman I spoke to suggested I used the alternative server SMTP.MAIL.YAHOO.COM and even suggested that I did not need to set it up with a username/password. Complete nonsense of course and it did not work. She also referred me to BT FON service, which, again was completely irrelevant.

At one point during the day, one guy who took over my screen and, having fiddled around, clearly not knowing what he was doing (the mouse pointer wanderings tell it all!), concluded that he had done his best and BT would have to start charging me if I wanted them to continue working on the problem.

I have wasted hours on this problem and all because (1) I was given wrong information in the first place and (2) I was stupid enough to believe what I was told by an Indian Call Centre (I have learned my lesson now!). They are only capable of understanding and dealing with very simple problems that don't in any way deviate from their script.

The principles appear be:

(1) If you are using the ISP's own, dedicated SMTP service you do not have to check 'my server requires authentication' as the server knows who you are by virtue of the fact that you are coming in via a known broadband line.

(2) You cannot use the ISP's own SMTP server on a different line, say at wifi hotspot, to send your mail using a desktop client even if you check 'my server requires authentication'.

(3) When changing ISPs you cannot leave the old ISP's SMTP server in your account configuration - you must change it.

(4) If you are a peripatetic laptop user and need to be able to use any available internet connection to send your mail, then all you have to do is configure each mail account setting in your desktop client with a non-ISP specific SMTP server. Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail should work OK or you can use the SMTP server provided by your web hosting company (if it provides email in addition to web space - which most appear to do these days). However, you will have to check 'my server requires authentication' and also provide the username+password for the account, which will different from the POP2 account login.

Does that sound right?

Thanks again for your quick and simple answers. I am very grateful and can only conclude that you don't work for an Indian Call Centre!

Rob Wheeler (frustrated yesterday, but relieved today)

Guru
Andy_N
Posts: 3,474
Registered: ‎31-01-2010

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

[ Edited ]

 

Hi Rob.

 

The verifiication item was introduced by Yahoo! a few years back, and BTYahoo! implemented it around 2 years ago.

You will get specific error messages (error 553) if the detail is not set correctly.

 

My shortcuts, option 0e also provides details on the use, and was the first to actually give details on how to do it (myself and Robert wrote it weeks before BT had their info in place). My info still includes extras that the BT verify item hasn't provided.

 

Have a look at my instructions to see if they are better for you. You only need to do this if you are getting 553 errors, there is no requirement otherwise.

 

The exact error message is needed in order to determine the exact cause of mail sending failures - hence you will always see replies to posts requesting these extra details.

 

Be aware that using the google smtp servers will result in strange receipt emails (for example for users of Outlook). If you send an email via this method and the recipient is using Outlook, they will see an email saying something like :-

 

"Received from user..... @ googlemail dot com on behald of 'your domain email address' ...."

 

not exactly friendly or handy.

 

(1) If you are using the ISP's own, dedicated SMTP service you do not have to check 'my server requires authentication' as the server knows who you are by virtue of the fact that you are coming in via a known broadband line.

 

Actually, for BTYahoo! - this is needed. This has been a requirement for a number of years, though there have been various reports since then that people have set it and still able to send. Then suddenly they need to set it ...

 

(2) You cannot use the ISP's own SMTP server on a different line, say at wifi hotspot, to send your mail using a desktop client even if you check 'my server requires authentication'.

 

That is nothing new I'm afraid, and as I said is probably the case for most "large" ISPs.

 

(3) When changing ISPs you cannot leave the old ISP's SMTP server in your account configuration - you must change it.

 

This is the same as (2), though you can generally use the webmail access of the ISP if relevant. If the email address is a "non home ISP" - in other words not the big players, and you are using a personal domain via a domain hosting company, then you should be able to use their servers accroding to their instructions. This is not always the case, but BT doesn't exclude it.

 

(4) is the same as (2) & (3) to be frank. But you can always use webmail if needed and if provided.

 

 

 

 

Expert
IanC
Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎20-02-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

 

redherring wrote:


The principles appear be:

(1) If you are using the ISP's own, dedicated SMTP service you do not have to check 'my server requires authentication' as the server knows who you are by virtue of the fact that you are coming in via a known broadband line.

 

That depends on the ISP. With BT, SMTP authentication has been required for some time now - there have been reports of people not needing it, but for me it's been a necessity for quite a while.


Other ISPs may be different, of course.


(2) You cannot use the ISP's own SMTP server on a different line, say at wifi hotspot, to send your mail using a desktop client even if you check 'my server requires authentication'.

 

Again, that depends on the ISP. I've seen suggestions that BTs SMTP service is usable from anywhere with authentication, but I've not tried it myself.


There are certainly ISPs that do allow it though.

 

Also remember that not all forms of authentication are the same, and that the authentication methods used by different SMTP services may differ.

 

(3) When changing ISPs you cannot leave the old ISP's SMTP server in your account configuration - you must change it.

 

Again, that depends on the ISP...see (2)

 

(4) If you are a peripatetic laptop user and need to be able to use any available internet connection to send your mail,

 

This is essentially the same scenario as (3)

 

or you can use the SMTP server provided by your web hosting company

 

That's my preferred method. That way, I don't need to think about or change anything.

 

However, you will have to check 'my server requires authentication'

 

I don't know your software. Mine has no such setting :smileyhappy:

 

and also provide the username+password for the account,

 

Yes, otherwise any old spammer could use that SMTP service.

 

which will different from the POP2 account login.


Might be different - might be the same...

 

 

Aspiring Expert
Redflake
Posts: 254
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

In non techie terms you can recieve emails from almost all accounts regardless of the company, ISP it was set up with. Most ISP's will only let you send emails when you are connected to thier network and as you found out most probably logged in to your own account. Think this is mainly to stop spammers and hackers. You could always use a G Mail account that will work on any connection.

(other good online free email accounts are available)

Expert
IanC
Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎20-02-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband


Redflake wrote:

 

Most ISP's will only let you send emails when you are connected to thier network and as you found out most probably logged in to your own account.


How do they stop you sending emails, if you're not connected to their network ?  :smileywink:

 

Aspiring Expert
Redflake
Posts: 254
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

[ Edited ]

IanC wrote:

Redflake wrote:

 

Most ISP's will only let you send emails when you are connected to their network and as you found out most probably logged in to your own account.


How do they stop you sending emails, if you're not connected to their network ?  :smileywink:

 


What I meant was that if you have a BT Yahoo email account and are away from home and connect through another network provider say Orange etc. You will be able to receive emails from your BT email but will not be able to send through your BT email account. In my instance I have an old plusnet email address that I have set up in my mail account settings. Now that I am connected to BT I can still receive emails through the Plusnet account but can only send emails through my BT account. You should still be able to send and receive if using web mail but not through an email programme. Hope that makes sense.  :smileywink:

Unfortunately my understanding is greater than my ability to explain what I meen.  :smileyvery-happy:

Expert
IanC
Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎20-02-2010
0

Re: Using POP3 away from your home broadband

 

Redflake wrote:

IanC wrote:

Redflake wrote:

 

Most ISP's will only let you send emails when you are connected to their network and as you found out most probably logged in to your own account.


How do they stop you sending emails, if you're not connected to their network ?  :smileywink:

 


What I meant was that if you have a BT Yahoo email account and are away from home and connect through another network provider say Orange etc. You will be able to receive emails from your BT email but will not be able to send through your BT email account.

 

I've always found the concept of "sending through a particular email account" imprecise and potentially confusing.

 

I have multiple email addresses and email accounts setup on this laptop. One of them is a BT email account, but sending email from that account goes nowhere near BT's SMTP service.

 

So when you say "send through your BT email account" you really mean "send using BT's SMTP service".


I've a feeling that you probably CAN use BT's (or Yahoo's) SMTP service from a non-BT connection.

Can anybody confirm/deny this ?  I can't easily check right now, but I may be able to do so next week.

 

In my instance I have an old plusnet email address that I have set up in my mail account settings. Now that I am connected to BT I can still receive emails through the Plusnet account but can only send emails through my BT account.

 

Not true. You can send emails through any SMTP service that'll allows connection based on authentication details regardless of network - a specialist email host providing an SMTP service, for example...


...or the SMTP service of an ISP that allows it, such as Demon or Zen or...Plusnet !

 

You should still be able to send and receive if using web mail

 

Yup

 

but not through an email programme.

 

See above. While connected to BT you can use any SMTP service that'll let you use it - BT don't mind.

 

Hope that makes sense. 

 

Likewise.