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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 21 of 52

Re: Adsl Max to Adsl2+ Tags SLT Upload Cap

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I am reformatting my original post to make more readable I hpoe.

Every time it rains my internet drops.

After 26 engineer visits and resorting to fixing the Openrach network for them by laying 273M of 56 Duct.

With new cable in place BT were upgrading me from Adsl Max to Adsl2+.

My modem is now showing G_992_5_ANNEX_A which is ADSL2+ not G_992_1_ANNEX_A as before.

444 Kbps / 3.03 Mbps

792 / 3276

17.6 dB / 6 dB

62.5 dB

38.4 dB / 62.5 dB

The 792 is upload sync the 444 is my 'cap'.

It would seam that if you have a residential contract you get 444 Business you get, at my house, 700 ish.

The problem is all my neighbors get 700 ish they all have residential contracts.

We are all connected to same DP and all lines are exchange only. No cabinet per say.

I got this from BT case management on 18/04/19 :-

I appreciate this has been a drawn out proves for which I apologise. As I explained we don’t cap lines for contractual reasons. We deliver the fastest speed the line will achieve while being stable. We don’t guarantee any upload speed, only download. The minimum guaranteed download speed for your line is 1000 KBPS and latest data indicated it running a 3000. The previous case manager and the Openreach engineers have said that once the cable changeover was completed you could be put on a different package which would deliver higher speeds. What was being suggested was changing the Service Line Type. This is the type of technology which supplies the broadband at the exchange. Your SLT is up to 8000 kbps which is the maximum the exchange can deliver on this type of technology. According to our records this is the only technology available in your area and only SLT available to you is the current one. I have raised a query with BT Wholesale to check that our records are correct and see if a faster SLT is available. I’ll let you know the outcome.

I have also had openreach here for two hours trying to sort this out.

There was mention of a tag on my line that said/set to 8.

For Adsl2+ this tag should be 24.

I've heard of tags in context of debts and isp squabbles.

Is my 8 Tag like a blacklist to warn isps the line is severely impacted?

The tags are BT speak once openreach translated this to there acronym my 'tag' was changed from 8 to 24.

This according to BT would allow them to up my 'slt' from 8000 to (i guess) 24000.

I've been on Adsl2+ for two weeks now.

Anyone got any more info on tags, slt and upload caps.

Also Openreach describe my present situation is due to being on the wrong product? What does that mean?

Are we all talking about the same 'thing' but everyone is using a different language?

I believe this is a job for the mods. Can you reach out please.

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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 22 of 52

Re: Adsl Max to Adsl2+ Tags SLT Upload Cap

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Roll out the bunting.

10 minutes after chat with mod modem disconects and hey presto cap lifted.

Any chance of tech style explination of what you 'ordered' for the cap to be lifted.

CapLiftLog.jpgCapLifted.jpgCapLiftSpeedT.jpg

Wow they uploaded quicker. 90% quicker. Well done all round.

Will order DLM rest via Openreach and keep this thread updated.

 

 

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Moderator
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Message 23 of 52

Re: Adsl Max to Adsl2+ Tags SLT Upload Cap

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Hi @DiggerOfTrenches  thanks for the update. I placed an order with wholesale to lift the cap and it was due to complete within 24hrs. Glad it has completed so quickly and you are now getting a better upload speed.

Cheers
John

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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 24 of 52

Re: Adsl Max to Adsl2+ Tags SLT Upload Cap

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Speed test before cap lifted. Note improvement in ping and no download reduction with cap lifted.

I suspect It may still be interleaved but as HUB6 always says Fast Path even if not I may never know.

Anyway 20ms ping will do for me.

When line retrained last week all on it's own after being connected for 3 days to 3dB my ping was 16ms. 3.2Mb dl

This was fine until Level 1 BT support insisted on resetting my line to remove cap.

Went to 6dB and 29ms ping 2.7Mb dl. Thanks for that.

I will update with snr observation once I have had my line reset so it can retrain unmolested by Level 1 this time.

BeforeCapped.jpg

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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 25 of 52

Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

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Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

 

PLEASE read this post in full BEFORE asking questions to which the ANSWERS are in this post!

 

In April 2018 before I ordered Telephone and ADSL from BT I checked http://www.dslchecker.bt.com.

BTDslCheck.jpg

 

 

The above picture is of the new dslchecker with observed speeds but old one very similar

I then went ahead and ordered what I presumed would be Residential Rate adaptive ADSL2 Broadband.

Advertised in 2018 as 3.5Mb to 5.5Mb estimate at my gaff based on address.

In between advertised as up to 10Mb.

Now in 2019 advertised as 1Mb to 3Mb download 1Mb upload.

 

How wrong could I be.

What I got was Non Rate Adaptive ADSL0(Max) ie DLM turned off and a Fixed 6dB margin. Max upload 0.4. Download 1.8 as @ 04/18.

To quote BT case management 'As I explained we don’t cap lines for contractual reasons. We deliver the fastest speed the line will achieve while being stable.' and 'Your SLT is up to 8000 kbps which is the maximum the exchange can deliver on this type of technology. According to our records this is the only technology available in your area and only SLT available to you is the current one'.

The above quote contains truths, half truths and and what I would call outright lies. BT call them computer errors. What ever.

 

This amounts to my line being 'BLACKLISTED' on stability grounds in the past.

Thus only allowing ADSL0(Max) to be ordered going forward.

 

 

Since April 2018 Openreach have removed 14 unnecessary cable joints between Distribution Point and my house.

Replaced 300M of overhead cable spans with single pair 0.9mm2.

Replaced 273M of underground 'damp string' with an appropriate 10 pair 0.9mm2 cable in a duct this time.

Replaced the 1920's cast iron pole top junction boxes with plastic ones.

Replaced the drop wire down both poles to underground cable twice.

Replaced my master socket with a 5C twice.

And made me wait in 26 1/2 days to feed and water/tea/coffee 26 engineers.

ALL of the wiring between DP and my house is totally brand spanking new.

And my modulation is now G922_5 ie ADSL2 not G922_1 ie ADSL(0)Max

 

 

So after all that I then spent two weeks trying to get the 'we don't do caps' cap lifted from my line.

See this post.

https://community.bt.com/t5/ADSL-Copper-broadband/Adsl-Max-to-Adsl2-Tags-SLT-Upload-Cap/td-p/1939255...

 

 

During this time my now capped ADSL2 line is in it's 10 day training period.

After 3 days connected the DLM re profiles my line from 9dB target snr to 3dB.

Over next few days DLM, on odd disconnect overnight, slowly increases my target to 4dB. To be expected DLM doing its job.

 

Then my big mistake. I phone BT customer services about my upload cap.

In order for CS to progress my complaint to y case manager about upload cap they must first 'reset my line'.

I protested my line was in its 10 day training period, she insisted it must be rest.

It got reset my case management never made contact with me.

My line went back to DLM turned off 6dB set target snr margin with upload capped. /s Marvelous thank you.

 

So finally yesterday my upload cap was removed by JohnC2 a mod on this forum. Thank you JohnC2.

At 5pm yesterday Openreach sent the command to put my line back in training mode.

At 5am this morning 26/04/19 at TR69 command was received and my line is now, in theory, in a 10 day training period.

 

Yesterday I discussed with JohnC2, Local Openreach manager and Openreach engineer my desire that my line should be allowed to train its self to whatever target DLM deams suitable.

After all the line work that has been done and if there are no other serious fault a stable snr target of 4.5db to 5db may well be achieved.

Openreach say this should be allowed to happen.

JohnC2 reluctantly, and I respect his reservations, said this should be allowed to happen.

 

So my questions are

 

1. How do I confirm without waiting 3/5/10/14 days for an snr change if DLM is active?

2. How do I confirm my snr is not 'locked' to 6dB?

3. Is my line actually in a 10 day training period if still 'blacklisted' it may nto be?

4. Is my line still on a 'blacklist' so if reset in the future DLM will be off and margin 'locked' to 6dB?

 

PLEASE read this post in full BEFORE asking questions to which the ANSWERS are in this post!

Info.jpgLog.jpg 

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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 26 of 52

Adsl Max to Adsl2+ Tags SLT Upload Cap

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Ok. Line reset at 5am this morning via TR69. It's raining and line stable @ 6.3dB.
Will post update in 3-4 days.Log.jpgInfo.jpg

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Message 27 of 52

Re: Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

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@DiggerOfTrenches Welcome back to the community and thanks for your questions. I've moved your posts back to your original thread as its best to keep them in the one place which makes it easier for the community to follow.

DLM is active by default on all ADSL2+ lines

The standard target SNR margin is 6db if your line is good and error free DLM may choose to reduce this to 3db in due course if your line is suitable. The connection is rate adaptive and designed to give you the best speed your line can carry stably. 

Yes your line will be in a new 10 day stabilisation period after the changes @JohnC2 made yesterday.

There are no blacklists, I suspect that due to the previous issues with the line DLM had reduced your connection speed and raised the SNR margin to try and stabilise the connection and keep the connection up. This is normally reset after a repair to the line is made.

Community ModeratorNeilO
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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 28 of 52

Re: Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

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Thanks for your reply.

This is a totally different topic to my upload cap thread which is solved.

Moving this to an upload cap thread makes little sense to me especially one that is solved.

The move IMO makes it harder for the community to follow.

My upload cap has been removed and I am not expecting it to return.

Could it be moved back please?
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Distinguished Sage
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Message 29 of 52

Re: Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

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What @NeilO  is saying, as DLM is always on, so if the error rate starts to increase, then the connection speed will be reduced, and vice-versa. This can affect both upload or download speed, or both.

DLM was reset last time, which is why your speed increased, but there is no guarantee that it will stay that way, if the error rate starts to increase. This is done to protect the network from excessive re-transmissions caused bt CRC errors.

You will just have to see how it goes.

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DiggerOfTrenches
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Message 30 of 52

Re: Non Rate Adaptive ADSL(0)Max. ie. DLM switched off 6dB Fixed Margin. BLACKLISTED.

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DLM is active by default on all ADSL2+ lines. This is a statement of fact. It does not answer any of my questions 1-4.


The standard target SNR margin is 6db if your line is good and error free DLM may choose to reduce this to 3db in due course if your line is suitable. The connection is rate adaptive and designed to give you the best speed your line can carry stably. This is also a statement of fact. It does not answer any of my questions 1-4.


Yes your line will be in a new 10 day stabilisation period after the changes @JohnC2 made yesterday. This may answer question 3 but you use the word will not is. Is your answer assumptive? ie Have you actually checked my line is in a 10 stabilisation period or not?


There are no blacklists, I suspect that due to the previous issues with the line DLM had reduced your connection speed and raised the SNR margin to try and stabilise the connection and keep the connection up. This is normally reset after a repair to the line is made.

Again this does not answer any of my questions. For the previous 12 months since the day my ADSL Max line was installed my snr has always been 6dB no matter how many disconnects a day and I've had hundreds of them . If DLM was turned on then you would expect to see a rise in snr to the point where the dl goes below 1mB and Openreach turn up. Never ever ever has it budged from 6dB suggesting DLM was turned off upon installation or very soon afterwards. If it looks like a blacklist smells like a blacklist then for want of a different name it is a blacklist. Can you suggest another name for this.

Are you saying the DSLAM remembers the previous occupants fault history and is not reset when a new person takes over the line?

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