Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to al...

liviggo · ‎16-05-2012

Apologies for resurrecting an old topic, and one that is similiar to, but not the same as the next thread.

BT Broadband is saying it’s connected, when it seemingly isn’t, so no webpages download. We have been experiencing this problem since our exchange was “upgraded” on 24 January but did not before. We were warned it might take a few weeks for things to settle down, but 4 MONTHS is beyond a joke.

The info from the Service Status Page isn't listing our area as affected by an outage or a known problem.

Some previous threads that describe a similar problem, but don’t give a solution:

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-Speed-Connection-Issues/Broadband-connected-no-internet/td-p/14416

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/Intermittent-broadband/m-p/14581

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/Network-upgrade-gone-wrong/m-p/14511

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/0208-DIALLING-CODES-HAVING-PROBLEMS-WITH-LOSS-OF-CONNECTION-AN...

The symptoms:

(1) Our neighbours, on a separate line, are experiencing similar problems.

(2) Our router is reporting that we are connected, but Windows is reporting no internet connection and no web pages can be downloaded. We get the “This webpage is not available. The server at bt.com can’t be found” error page

(3) Diagnostic tools that require internet connection, e.g. BT’s speedtester, cannot run.

(4) This (effective) loss of connection happens at least five or six times a day.

(5) All internet connected devices developed the problem on the day of the “upgrade” in both houses. This seems to me to exclude the routers unless some setting there needs to be changed manually following the “upgrade” of the exchange and to exclude the wiring in each house, which would have had to develop faults simultaneously.

I've tried connecting the router directly to the (front) of the main socket - no change. And the quiet line test - I got a continuous steady drone, which I assume is the tired old phone, no pops or crackles at all.

(6) The BT Broadband to both houses was working fine before the “upgrade” of the exchange.

(7) No web pages can be downloaded on any machine/OS we have tried: Android, iOs, Windows 7 Pro 64 and 32 bit, Windows 8 DP and CP, Windows XP, and various media players, phones, etc. All client devices “fall over” simultaneously. I think this excludes settings on any client device. All our desktops/laptops run anti-virus/malware that is updated every day. Scans have not found any viruses or malware.

(8) We are using a Netgear DGN2000 ADSL2 router with the latest firmware installed, our neighbours have a BT HomeHub, i.e. the problem is not router specific.

(9) Disconnecting and reconnecting, either by a cold reboot of the router or a software disconnect-reconnect from BT Broadband at the router, immediately restores web functionality.

(10) We have tried BT’s helpline without success. Their scripts do not cover this type of problem apparently. “I’m sorry sir, I don’t understand your problem” - exact quote – call ended.

This is what BT’s speedtester says when working

Download speed 5.2 Mbps

IP Profile for your line is 5.55 Mbps

Upload speed 0.85 Mbps

Upstream Rate IP profile 0.83 Mbps

At this point the speedtester crashed, so I don’t have the diagnostics for the “additional services” whatever they might be.

This is what our router says both when working and during an outage

Connection time xx:yy:zz (whatever time since we last disconnected and reconnected manually, might be a couple of hours, might be 20 min.)

Connected to server

Negotiation: Success

Authentication: Success

Getting IP Address: 81.xxx.yyy.zzz (varies)

Getting Netmask: 255.255.255.255

Connection speed 6958 kbps (downstream) 1096 kbps (upstream)

Line attenuation 38.0 db (downstream) 16.2 db (upstream)

Noise Margin 5.4 db (downstream) 5.7 db (upstream)

Encapsulation: PPPoA

Idle Timeout:0

ADSL settings

Multiplex method: VC-based

VPI: 0

VCI:38

Does anyone have any ideas? I’m assuming someone must have found a solution, even though it’s not posted on any of the threads I’ve found so far, otherwise BT would be out of business. I can’t imagine anyone else would have put up with this for so long.

Thanks

john46 · ‎16-05-2012

Hi I suggest you contact the forum mods they should be able to get your problem sorted for you this is a link to them
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4951
they normally reply by email or phone directly to you within 3 working days

They are a UK based BT specialist team who have a good record at getting problems solved

liviggo · ‎17-06-2012

First of all, let me say the Mods are working hard to solve my problems.

We had an engineer in on Friday to investigate our problems. He blamed the extension cable and star wired other extension in our house which was resulting in high numbers of CRC errors. He changed our old style socket for an open reach one.

NB Our neighbours are experiencing similar problems since our exchange was upgraded, just as we are.

We have agreed to replace the extension cable with cat 5e spec cable, but I would like to know if anyone knows how many CRC errors are needed before the whole schebang collapses.

I have logged the errors and fall overs today and can't see any pattern that links CRC errors to fall overs - but then I don't pretend to know what I'm supposed to look for.

So, can anyone tell me:

(1) How many CRC errors are significant?

(2) What is the expected time delay between a bunch of CRC errors and the system freezing? Instant, 15 min, 45 min, more?

(3) What should I be looking for?

Log below.

STATS AFTER 3RD FALL OVER since engineers visit

Down Up
SNR 8.8 5.4
Attn 38.0 20.0
Pwr 0.0 12.9
Max 9680 1096
Rate 8096 1089

G.dmt framing
K: 127(0) 51
R: 10 8
S: 1 4
😧 64 4

ADSL2 framing
MSGc 59 10
B: 126 50
M: 1 4
R: 10 8
S: 0.5000 5.9508
L: 2192 285
😧 64 4

Counters
SF: 203130 194060
SFErr: 3 0
RS: 26406916 2216948
RSCorr: 2738465 0
RSUnCorr:73 0

HEC: 3 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
TotCell0.44
s 63022467 80400
DataCell 11440 94
DtopCell:0
BitErr: 0 0

ES: 59 0
SES: 13 0
UAS: 671 0
AS: 3300

INP: 1.16 0.44
PER: 16.25 17.85
delay: 8.00 5.95
OR: 32.00 7.16

Bitswap:849 0

TotTime = 23 hour 52 min 6 sec (since last powerdown)
SF: = 5232937
cRC: 4145
LOS: 8
LOF: 70
ES: 59

Latest 1 day time = 23 hour 52 min 6 sec
SF: = 5232937
cRC: 4145
LOS: 8
LOF: 70
ES: 59

Latest 15 min time = 7 min 6 sec
SF: = 26232
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

Previous 15 min time = 15 min
SF: = 55428
cRC: 1
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 1

Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF: = 0
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55365
cRC: 1
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 1

15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55365
cRC: 1
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 1

Fallen over 19.00 17/06/2012

Down Up
SNR 9.1 5.7
Attn 38.0 20.0
Pwr 0.0 12.8
Max 9612 1088
Rate 7937 1087

G.dmt framing
K: 124(0) 51
R: 10 4
S: 1 4
😧 64 4

ADSL2 framing
MSGc 59 10
B: 123 50
M: 1 4
T: 2 3
R: 10 4
S: 0.4979 5.9641
L: 2153 279
😧 64 4

Counters
SF: 345789 329139
SFErr: 2 0
RS: 44953744 3748901
RSCorr: 576508 0
RSUnCorr:18 0

HEC: 2 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
TotCells 104762498 131143
DataCell 1384 287
DtopCell:0
BitErr: 0 0

ES: 81 0
SES: 29 0
UAS: 856 0
AS: 5596

INP: 1.18 0.22
PER: 16.18 17.89
delay: 7.96 5.96
OR: 32.13 7.15

Bitswap:820 0

TotTime = 1 day 4 hour 37 min 2 sec (since last powerdown)
SF: = 6272507
cRC: 6904
LOS: 14
LOF: 124
ES: 81

Latest 1 day time = 1 day 4 hour 37 min 2 sec
SF: = 1010437
cRC: 2759
LOS: 6
LOF: 54
ES: 22

Latest 15 min time = 7 min 2 sec
SF: = 26095
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

Previous 15 min time = 15 min
SF: = 55598
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF: = 5262070
cRC: 4145
LOS: 8
LOF: 70
ES: 59

15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55600
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55660
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55598
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

ES: 1

15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55598
cRC: 2
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 1

No change in CRC figure after dis/re connect

Fallen over 22.13 17/06/2012

Down Up
SNR 8.9 5.8
Attn 38.0 20.0
Pwr 0.0 13.0
Max 9384 1088
Rate 7869 1083

G.dmt framing
K: 123(0) 51
R: 10 4
S: 1 4a
😧 64 4

ADSL2 framing
MSGc 59 10
B: 122 50
M: 1 4
T: 2 3
R: 10 4
S: 0.4981 5.9856
L: 2136 278
😧 64 4

Counters
SF: 24967 23708
SFErr: 1 0
RS: 3245760 269230
RSCorr: 39291 0
RSUnCorr:5 0

HEC: 1 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
TotCells 7489253 516175
DataCell 100 913
DtopCell:0
BitErr: 0 0

ES: 87 0
SES: 30 0
UAS: 890 0
AS: 404

INP: 1.19 0.23
PER: 16.18 17.95
delay: 7.97 5.98
OR: 32.13 7.12
Bitswap:115 0

TotTime = 1 day 7 hour 39 min 2 sec (since last powerdown)
SF: = 6946241
cRC: 7383
LOS: 15
LOF: 133
ES: 87

Latest 1 day time = 7 hour 39 min 2 sec
SF: = 1684171
cRC: 3238
LOS: 7
LOF: 63
ES: 28

Latest 15 min time = 9 min 2 sec
SF: = 32405
cRC: 472
LOS: 1
LOF: 9
ES: 2

Previous 15 min time = 15 min
SF: = 55598
cRC: 3
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 2

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF: = 5262070
cRC: 4145
LOS: 8
LOF: 70
ES: 59

15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55600
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55600
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF: = 55598
cRC: 0
LOS: 0
LOF: 0
ES: 0

Stats essentially the same after dis/re-connect

john46 · ‎17-06-2012

hi any CRC's are a problem as to a time scale there is not one the errors slow down throughput and can and do cause disconnections

liviggo · ‎17-06-2012

Thanks for the response. I guess my question is `Can CRC errors cause a disconnection 45 min later, the system working unaffected in between times?`

I don't claim to understand what might be going on, but it seems odd to me.

liviggo · ‎17-06-2012

Sorry, I should also have asked, I would imagine some errors are expected, so how many?
And, if it's our internal cable, would that not give a continuous error rate? rather than none, then a lot, then none?

john46 · ‎18-06-2012

many things can cause a disconnection random noise on the line error like crc's time switches

this link may help you http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/Poor-Broadband-speed/m-p/14217#M8397

john46 · ‎18-06-2012

the errors are caused by noise and that can be very random this link may also help http://www.btinternet.com/~cbeddoe/forumhelp/speed/noisemargin.html

BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.

Re: BT Broadband thinks it's connected when, to all intents and purposes, it isn't. No internet.