BT Cloud

[RKM]

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@jamieandangelawrote:

@RKM 

Clearly, by your own evidence, what you pay does not determine Cloud allocation size.

This is very simple if you do not pay a monthly subscription for  Service as I listed then you do not get My Cloud. So another wee simple fact is if you pay a Subcription you  get do My Cloud with a package. 

All very simple ...............

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If you don't pay a monthly subscription then you don't get an Internet connection.  Simples.

Also simple is the very fact that BT clearly state that BTCloud is FREE.

What you think you are paying for and what you are legally and contractually paying for are clearly different realities that bear no relation to each other.  It is the legal and contractual reality that matters.

End of discussion!

[Vernon1]

As you say RKM, Fibre 2 comes with 1000GB Cloud allocation, as part of the contract you agreed to when renewing the service with BT. The service offered by BT is still subject to the Consumer Rights Act 2015. If there are any lawyers on this forum, it would be useful to have an analysis of whether BT are in 'breach of contract' and are they risking a class action against them. The following government reference might be a useful starting position.

Changing the terms or characteristics of a service (unilateral variation)

"Consumers should be able to foresee at the time of entering the contract if and in what circumstances the service or contract may change. This is particularly important for fixed term contracts. Terms which give you a wide discretion to make changes are likely to be unfair.

We understand that there are some circumstances where you may be required to make changes, sometimes with little or no notice, for example to ensure security and operability of the service or to meet legal requirements. However, to help ensure your terms are fair, providers should:

• only be able to make changes to the terms or the service for valid reasons which are clearly set out in the contract, so that consumers understand how the changes might affect their rights and obligations under the contract. This is particularly important for fixed-term contracts where the scope to make changes should be limited;
• ensure that consumers receive adequate notice of changes, so that they can consider their position and decide whether to accept the changes; and
• ensure that consumers who do not wish to accept changes can cancel the contract, obtain a refund for any services not yet provided (including, where relevant, any additional services they have purchased) and retrieve their data."

My interpretation is that at the very least BT are indeed 'in breach contract' by not informing their customers, in advance, of the changes they were making to the BT Cloud user interface, it's accessibility and compatibility across all platforms.

[simeon_e]

So by your logic if I take my car for a service and take the free MOT that comes as a  "sweetener" when you pay to get you car serviced (my local mechanic does this exact thing). They actually don't really need to do the MOT and will bear no responsible if they offered you the service but didn't actually carry out the MOT and didn't tell you or contact you about it?

[RKM]

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@woolstonswrote:

There's a lot of effort going into explaining why customers are idiots for thinking BT Cloud should work.

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Where has anyone suggested, let alone made any effort to explain, that customers are idiots for thinking the service should work?

It'd be nice to see some effort going into fixing it and/or sharing workarounds.

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What thread, if any are you referring to?  I have to ask because this thread has many posts that they are working on a fix, with some subscribers beta testing candidate solutions, as well as people sharing steps on how it should work, if it does on your system.

My recommendation, stated again, is that if you can't get it to work at the moment then your safest option is to uninstall it (or at least remove it from Start-up) and wait for the fixed version to be released.  I can't give you an advice on when that may be, but repeatedly trying to run a faulty app risks damage to otherwise safely stored data in the Cloud.

[Vernon1]

I would beware of any garage that offers MOT 'sweeteners'. They won't be bound by contract law and you're asking for trouble! If on the other hand the contract you take out includes the MOT, which is clearly stated and priced on the paperwork then this will be covered by contract law.

[RKM]

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@simeon_ewrote:

So by your logic if I take my car for a service and take the free MOT that comes as a  "sweetener" when you pay to get you car serviced (my local mechanic does this exact thing). They actually don't really need to do the MOT and will bear no responsible if they offered you the service but didn't actually carry out the MOT and didn't tell you or contact you about it?

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That depends on the T&Cs of the free MOT offer.  Nevertheless, if they say it is a free MOT then you can't later claim that you paid for it, whether they carried it out or not.

Hence my suggestion that you read the T&Cs you accepted with BTCloud, especially the sections on their responsibility and liability.

[simeon_e]

@Vernon1 

@RKM 

That is my point. I personally do not think BT Cloud or Free  MOT services are so called sweeteners  "sweeteners" just because they were offered free as part of a deal, hence the parentheses. They are only free due to the marketing tactics of the company offering them and you are required to pay for a service to get the so called  free "sweetener".

BT Cloud just like any free MOT service I have seen are listed on the contract or the purchase order as a service purchased or acquired by the customer so they are subjected to laws and consumer rights regardless of what the companies choose to include or exclude in their T&C's.

This applies to BT with their BT CUSTOMER cloud service.

[RKM]

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@simeon_ewrote:

BT Cloud just like any free MOT service I have seen are listed on the contract or the purchase order as a service purchased or acquired by the customer so they are subjected to laws and consumer rights regardless of what the companies choose to include or exclude in their T&C's.

They may well be subject to consumer rights, but the T&C's still apply.

The "free MOT" may well have some exclusions, such as items not covered by the service which would result in a clear MOT failure , that would allow the mechanic not to bother with the MOT until the customer gets them fixed.  That could even be in the customer's interest.

[jamieandangela]

@RKM  said

If you don't pay a monthly subscription then you don't get an Internet connection.  Simples.

Also simple is the very fact that BT clearly state that BTCloud is FREE.

What you think you are paying for and what you are legally and contractually paying for are clearly different realities that bear no relation to each other.  It is the legal and contractual reality that matters.

BT may say it is free it but very simply put you buy a monthly subscription paid by direct debit that can include the Cloud up to 1TB and part of that package. Look on the Ombudsman's website at previous cases and there are loads of cases where he states what you pay for and get offered offered by a supplier is a contract. So in reality BT may say it free in legal terms it Is part of a contract that we pay for.

Any more discussion required take on this matter take it up with the Regulator.

[RKM]

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@jamieandangelawrote: Look on the Ombudsman's website at previous cases and there are loads of cases where he states what you pay for and get offered offered by a supplier is a contract.

You certainly have a contract with BT to supply the bundled elements offered, and nobody is disputing that.

However, in accepting BT's offer, and thus creating the contract, you implicitly acknowledged that the bundle included FREE item(s), as clearly stated by BT not only in the bundle offer itself but also in their description of the item.  Having done so its a bit late, and certainly false, to then claim that you paid for individual items within the bundle that you contracted for.  Contractually, those elements have no commercial value, to both seller and buyer, and you are not at liberty to unilaterally assign commercial value to them whilst the contract remains valid.

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@jamieandangelawrote: Any more discussion required take on this matter take it up with the Regulator.

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Good luck with that, but it is a condition of referring a complaint to either the Regulator (Ofcom) or the Communications Ombudsman that you have first made a formal complaint to BT and given them adequate opportunity to respond.  Since we have made it clear on this forum that we are beta testers of the Client App, both of us would certainly be classed as: "currently working with the supplier to resolve the problem" and thus ineligible to have any complaint processed.  Other's mileage may, and most cases will, differ!