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Contributor
865 Views
Message 291 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

rebooting only temporary fixes (if at all) this problem

 

i suggest we all test for a week before stating its fixed on here.

 

im still having problems and im sure everyone else is too.

 

the last thing we want is BT relaxing on this now we finally got them going on it due to false "its fixed" messages on here.

 

 

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Highlighted
Contributor
862 Views
Message 292 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

BT...

 

Can we have an update please? - the move to a new card on the BRAS obviously has not worked !!!

 

I believe the next step you discussed was to route us around this BRAS completely - can we have some information as to when that might happen.

 

Many thanks.

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Highlighted
Aspiring Expert
800 Views
Message 293 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

@craig

 

Some progress but not solved. Since you made the change I've reverted to obtaining the DNS servers automatically. I have had no further problems logging on to Natwest, HSBC or Nationwide - which is good.   

 

But I could not log onto the Paypal https site this morning. When I changed DNS servers to Open DNS I was able to log in. 

 

I don't really want to have to rely on changing DNS servres as my experience is that even this does not always work. So a problem remains. 

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Highlighted
Aspiring Contributor
775 Views
Message 294 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

I don't think it is a DNS issue because the problems are still present with OpenDNS.  Today I can't access Facebook or PayPal.

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Highlighted
Aspiring Contributor
696 Views
Message 295 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

Still having problems this morning with https sites e.g. Live.com for emails and Facebook. Its really disconcerting when you are trying to make an online payment via payPal or other online banking.

 

I'm really fed up with this now, regret moving to Infinity and will be asking for a refund!

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Highlighted
Aspiring Contributor
662 Views
Message 296 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

Gmail, Google services such as search and paypal have not been working correctly today.

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Highlighted
Beginner
623 Views
Message 297 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

The problem is firmly still here. I've just had to swap hotmail back from https once I finally persuaded the **bleep** site to log in.

 

I rebooted it this morning so that I could go through the Sony site.

 

We've rebooted 5 times this week for banking. Basically the issue remains, I wish they'd fix it - I wish I'd not gone along with Infinity until this silly nonsense had been gone away.

 

Has anyone figured out remotely what it is? Is it "anti piracy" deep packet inspection gone nuts?

 

Please fix it!!

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Highlighted
Aspiring Expert
590 Views
Message 298 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

Contact the press. This issue has been going on for way too long. 

 

ISPReview, The Register, Thinkbroadband, etc. 

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Highlighted
Beginner
580 Views
Message 299 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues

While I am new to the forum I am not new to this problem.

 

My observations are:

The problem is sensitive to both source and destination IP addresses.

-          Resetting the Home Hub or the Open Reach Modem both cause a new internet IP address to be assigned.

-          I have also found that using the Home Hub menus to “disconnect”  and then “reconnect” from the internet (broadband) will also give the same result. Only if it is done too quickly you can get the same address again and the problem sites remain the same.

-          Once you have a different IP address a different set of HTTPS sites are impacted (as per a reboot).

 

For Wireless enabled devices using BT Fon  to connect works around the problem

 

Having taken  3 or 4 “wireshark” packet captures of the problem what I see is the HTTPS packets are delayed in the network.  This on its own is not a major problem. However, what  actually kills my sessions is that when receiving a page that spans multiple IP packets the final shorter packet arrives before the full packet that should have preceded it. This causes a storm of retries and confusion that more often than not kills the session .

 

This is pure speculation but coming from a large corporate network background it feels like the problem is related to a load balanced part of the BT network (which is why it is address sensitive) and the down the problem leg(s) of the load balancer something is delaying HTTPS traffic based on packet size.

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Highlighted
Aspiring Expert
550 Views
Message 300 of 313

Re: BT Infinity and https connection issues


@andy27902 wrote:

While I am new to the forum I am not new to this problem.

 

My observations are:

The problem is sensitive to both source and destination IP addresses.

-          Resetting the Home Hub or the Open Reach Modem both cause a new internet IP address to be assigned.

-          I have also found that using the Home Hub menus to “disconnect”  and then “reconnect” from the internet (broadband) will also give the same result. Only if it is done too quickly you can get the same address again and the problem sites remain the same.

-          Once you have a different IP address a different set of HTTPS sites are impacted (as per a reboot).

 

For Wireless enabled devices using BT Fon  to connect works around the problem

 

Having taken  3 or 4 “wireshark” packet captures of the problem what I see is the HTTPS packets are delayed in the network.  This on its own is not a major problem. However, what  actually kills my sessions is that when receiving a page that spans multiple IP packets the final shorter packet arrives before the full packet that should have preceded it. This causes a storm of retries and confusion that more often than not kills the session .

 

This is pure speculation but coming from a large corporate network background it feels like the problem is related to a load balanced part of the BT network (which is why it is address sensitive) and the down the problem leg(s) of the load balancer something is delaying HTTPS traffic based on packet size.


Based on your post I will speculate the cause.

 

I have observed on my infintiy connection that packets to/from any destination use different routers in a round robin fashion, so eg. packet 1 router A packet 2 router B and packet C router C.  BT to manage load appear to be favouring spreading load over multiple routers rather than 1 powerful router.

 

This is initially noticeable by just pinging as can see some jitter.  As to why it only affects some sites I have also noticed some ip's have less jitter than others and also depending which ip you get the jitter affects different sites.  Now jitter is something that people normally associate with congestion, the jitter I am talking about isnt caused by congestion its 24/7 but rather caused by different route's that have varying latency.  So my theory is if a later packet is sent over a quicker route than the earlier packet then you will get out of order packets.  Makes sense?

 

However to add a spanner into the works although I have this weird jitter routing issue I have not observed https issues myself.

 

The reason normal jitter (From congestion) wouldnt cause this issue because all packets would normally go via the same router and as such if one is delayed then following packets will also be delayed and as such wont get out of order packets.

 

See below part of a mtr to my ip from a uk server, notice hop 11 has noticeble jitter compared to other hops (this jitter carries on to my ip of course).  It also has 4 routers handling the traffic in a round robin fashion, hence the 4 ips.

 


 7. acc2-10GigE-5-2-1.sf.21cn-ipp.bt  0.0%    10    8.3   8.3   8.3   8.6   0.1
 8. acc2-10GigE-0-2-0.sf.21cn-ipp.bt  0.0%    10   12.0  12.2  12.0  12.4   0.1
 9. 217.41.169.108                    0.0%    10   11.8  11.6  11.5  11.8   0.1
10. 217.41.169.228                    0.0%    10   10.8  10.8  10.7  10.9   0.1
11. 213.120.181.245                   0.0%    10   11.9  12.5  10.7  13.1   0.8
    213.120.181.49
    213.120.181.205
    213.120.181.57

 

 Also a theory as to why some dont see problems, it may be just down to luck but also could be down to hardware and software configuration as there is features that are designed to deal with out of order packets such as timestamps and normalisation, eg. a device might simply reject out of order packets forcing a retransmit which would cause a delay instead of failure.

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