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walkerx
Recognised Expert
8,599 Views
Message 1 of 42

Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

While playing LOTRO and going afk for a bit I came back and noticed it was reporting that it had lost connection to the server, so I connected to the hub web interface and noticed it had only been up for about 20 minutes so I checked the logs and noticed the following.

 

19:15:09   6 Feb      LOGIN User admin logged in on [HTTP] (from 192.168.1.30)
19:14:55   6 Feb     LOGIN User Basic logged in on [HTTP] (from 192.168.1.30)
18:56:49   6 Feb     SNTP Synchronised to server: 213.123.20.170
18:56:49   6 Feb     SNTP Systemtime update: time setting 00:03:59 > new time setting: 18:56:49
00:03:40   1 Jan     CONFIGURATION saved by TR69
00:03:14   1 Jan     CONFIGURATION saved by user (/dl/user.ini)
00:01:35   1 Jan     LOGIN User Basic logged in on [HTTP] (from 192.168.1.30)
00:00:19   1 Jan     KERNEL Warm restart
18:52:31   6 Feb     CONFIGURATION saved by TR69

 

Yet between 18:30 and 19:14 I was away from my computer having something to eat. So how has the user Basic logged on using my IP address when no-one had access to my computer. I understand that TR69 is used remotely and so is /dl/user.ini.

 

Is there a way I can block BT from accessing my Hub without having to resort to putting a different router on my line, as it is my property not theirs. I had to pay £80 for it so if anyone has to configure it or update it then it should be me and not BT, as I'm sick of them messing rebooting and loosing settings for my equipment on the network.

 

I do not want anyone accessing my network without my consent and that includes BT.

 

regards

 

 

41 REPLIES 41
Somerled
Aspiring Expert
8,593 Views
Message 2 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

The answer is NO - this is a much discussed, and rather sensitive subject. The only way to prevent this is to replace the Home Hub with a better router of your own - over which you will have complete control. There is no technical requirement to have a Home Hub unless you want it to act as a BT FON hot spot. I got rid of my Hub for this very reason. I replaced it with a Draytek 2800 - far superior in every respect. Lots of others will also do the job.
walkerx
Recognised Expert
8,566 Views
Message 3 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

I only use it due to the better signal strength of the wireless compared to my other router and that it supports WPA&WPA2 and not just WEP, and don't wish to pay £150 to move the master socket.

GeneralDisquiet
Aspiring Expert
8,554 Views
Message 4 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

Err!  Far be it from me to defend BT HomeHub firmware, which I generally think is... well, perhaps I better not go there! 

 

I am fairly certain from everything I can find on the interweb that TR69 is a standard handshake protocol on Thomson based routers checking what firmware is currently running and to see if new firmware is needed - ie a firmware update.

 

Neither is is BT-specific.  O2, Tiscali, TalkTalk and other ISPs all use this protocol.

 

The following statement about TR69 might jog a few memories:

 

To minimize customer support calls and configure services based on user preferences, service providers prefer that Residential Gateways are fully configured and capable of being managed remotely from a centralized management station. The DSL Forum has defined its TR69 protocol for use by service providers not just for DSL"based customer premises equipment (CPE), but also for Passive Optical Network (PON)-based deployments.

 

A bit more detail can be found here.

 

Then I stumbled across a bag - and felt I should let the cat out of it.  Here is an industry statement from a few years back:

 

Turning up these new services will depend on providers’ abilities to provision and manage effectively advanced CPE such as RGWs (residential gateways), which are fast becoming the standard technology for delivering next-gen services to consumers and businesses. According to In-Stat/MDR, RGWs will increase from 3 percent of the roughly $5.1 billion CPE market in 2003 to one-third of all devices shipped in 2007.

Since RGWs are central to the delivery of new digital services, providers recognize that they must extend for the first time the boundaries of their management operations beyond the CO to directly manage these devices in the home.

 

I leave you, dear reader, to make of this what you will.

"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
-- Michel de Montaigne, Essays, 1559

Highlighted
Dorset_Vinney
Aspiring Expert
8,500 Views
Message 5 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

Users may wish to refer to offical moderator input on this topic

 

Firstly here

 

and then also - here

 

Further comment by me could be repetitive so please read the thread containing the quoted posts for yourselves, as you may gain friendly supportive peer to peer advice. I make no further value judgement - merely give helpful pointers to where relevant information may be found, posted by both BT staff and peer users.

Dorset Vinney - I speak up when I'm worried
Tags (2)
Peggypureycust
Contributor
8,489 Views
Message 6 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

looks like a standard restart to me.

GeneralDisquiet
Aspiring Expert
8,439 Views
Message 7 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

 


@Peggypureycust wrote:

looks like a standard restart to me.


 

 

Yes, I think it is.  In that respect TR-069 is like any of the 50 or so other IP protocols that have been developed to facilitate router communication with the CO (including PPPoE, DHCP, NAT and SIP) that crop up in questions here on the forums from time to time.

 

One of its functions is that it appears to communicate with a provisioning server, but it can do a lot more.  It would be helpful to know a little bit more about it.  PPPoE, DHCP, NAT and SIP are fairly transparent protocols,  TR69 much less so.  Hardly surprising then that some folks are getting a little anxious about it.

 

If and when fully implemented, it would seem that TR-069 allows remote management of:

 

• ACS settings
• Device parameter reporting
• LAN network settings
• LAN host device reporting
• WAN device settings
• LAN and WAN statistics
• Provisioning of core WAN
connectivity settings
• Remote image upgrade
• Configuration file download

 

Jungo-based routers, like the BT HomeHub 2.0 Type B (NOT the HH 2.0 Type A) may currently be the most likely to have full implementation.  See here for Jungo spec sheet.

 

In 2008, the UK telecom industry journal "The Telecom" explained that:

 

The Broadband Forum defined TR-069 as the major protocol for use in remote management of home-based IP-aware devices as well as residential broadband gateways.

Once implemented the operator’s customers can enjoy many new capabilities such as managed Internet and WiFi security features, as well as home networking and connection to IPTV providers.

Home-based broadband devices have become more complex and more numerous which has made configuring a home network too complex for most homeowners.

Therefore it is essential that operators are able to offer new ‘sticky’ services to home-based customers that can be remotely integrated.

The system also offers troubleshooting facilities without the need for an engineer to visit the location.

As well as auto configuration features that will allow the delivery of a large number of new services to homeowners.

 

I hope that provides a definitive explanation of TR-069 and how it already is, or is likely to be, used by ISPs in the future.

"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
-- Michel de Montaigne, Essays, 1559

Peggypureycust
Contributor
8,432 Views
Message 8 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

There's one answer, and that goes for many problems reported on here, get a third party router and either dump the curved devil or use it as a wired repeater where it can be immasculated.

 

As I have said before, when they brought out the "FON version" firmware back in the day, I predicted the next would be the "Webwise version". Maybe we have it, but unless PsiDOC can print a readable version on here or his/her site we may never know.

 

 

GeneralDisquiet
Aspiring Expert
8,345 Views
Message 9 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

 


@Peggypureycust wrote:

There's one answer, and that goes for many problems reported on here, get a third party router and either dump the curved devil or use it as a wired repeater where it can be immasculated.

 

As I have said before, when they brought out the "FON version" firmware back in the day, I predicted the next would be the "Webwise version". Maybe we have it, but unless PsiDOC can print a readable version on here or his/her site we may never know.

 

 


 

I think you may be right - yet another reason, as if we needed one, for recommending that third party routers are the way to go

 

"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
-- Michel de Montaigne, Essays, 1559

Dorset_Vinney
Aspiring Expert
8,290 Views
Message 10 of 42

Re: Can BT be blocked from making changes to my HomeHub

In order that you may have access to further information in a spirit of friendly peer to peer supportive co-operation, you might like to read about the systems supplied to ISPs by Motive Inc. for the remote management of equipment such as the hub.

http://www.motive.com/aboutmotive/aboutmotive.asp

should give you some ideas of how this software (Home Network Management solution) works and who it has been  supplied to (BT, VM, Tiscali and others).

http://www.motive.com/solutions/homenetworking/homenetworkingproducts.asp

It includes modules such as the Remote Control Module, and the Customer Service Manager.

 

Customers can read the specs of this software, not in order to discover terrible secrets or make unfounded allegations, but to be aware of the possibilities offered by this software, and then perhaps to check out what safeguards there might be, or how customers' privacy and consent concerns are (or are not) addressed in the literature. Customers can then make approaches to their own ISPs to ask them questions concerning any issues that customers are concerned about, and in a friendly supportive community such questions will no doubt be addressed in a friendly supportive way.

Dorset Vinney - I speak up when I'm worried