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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
1,580 Views
Message 31 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services


@beenrippedoff wrote:

In future i will record calls, log dates time and names, and make an FOI request for all info then see what the ombudsman says!!
Just so that you are aware, you can not make a FOI request from a private company such as BT or Openreach.
See link for information about who the the FOI Act only applies to.
https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/organisations-you-can-ask-for-information
You will also need to inform the person you are speaking to that you are recording the call otherwise you can not give the recorded information to a third party to use.

The interception, recording and monitoring of telephone calls is governed by a number of different pieces of UK legislation. The requirements of all relevant legislation must be complied with. The main ones are:

 

  • Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ("RIPA")
  • Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice)(Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 ("LBP Regulations")
  • Data Protection Act 1998
  • Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999
  • Human Rights Act 1998

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?

Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, i.e. someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

 

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

 

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beenrippedoff
Aspiring Contributor
1,572 Views
Message 32 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

Sorry i meant a SAR nor FOI.
Also the point about recording a call is that you can transcribe it accurately. The transcription is not subject to conditions in passing to a third party. The transcription can be entered as evidence to a court and the recording can be offered to the court as corroberating evidence if the judge allows.
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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
1,568 Views
Message 33 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services


@beenrippedoff wrote:
 The transcription can be entered as evidence to a court and the recording can be offered to the court as corroberating evidence if the judge allows.

Best evidence is what a court uses. In the case of a transcription of a recording, the recording is the best evidence so that would need to be put before the court before the transcription could be used which in most cases the judge won't allow if the person was not made aware that they were being recorded.

 

A Subject Access Request would not necessarily contain any detailed information other than you particulars/payment details etc. 

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beenrippedoff
Aspiring Contributor
1,555 Views
Message 34 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

As i am aware a SAR should contain all data related to yourself.
So in essence you are substantiating my statement that the ombudsman service is not fit for purpose as it is impossible to obtain the required evidence and neither can the ombudsman.
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beenrippedoff
Aspiring Contributor
1,554 Views
Message 35 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

gg30340 wrote: In the case of a transcription of a recording, the recording is the best evidence so that would need to be put before the court before the transcription could be used
.......................................................................

I dont agree. A transcription can be offered as evidence. The actual recording offered to corroborate if the court allows.
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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
1,552 Views
Message 36 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

A transcript is not the best evidence, the original recording is. The transcript does not corroborate the recording, it is only a written copy of the recording and is an aid to understanding what is being said on the recording. It may be that a judge would happily accept the transcript without hearing the recording but it would need to be proved that it was an accurate copy.

 

 

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beenrippedoff
Aspiring Contributor
1,536 Views
Message 37 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

Your comments are contradictory. I never said the transcript corroborates the recording!! I said exactly the opposite. You have stated recordings cannot be used without authority. Then you say it should be offered in evidence. You are correct a transcript is not the best evidence the recording is. But the un authorised recording wont be allowed to be entered initially only the transcript, if the judge questions the authenticity of the content then the recording can be offered as corroboration. Which is what I said in the first place.
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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
1,530 Views
Message 38 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

The transcript can not be allowed with out the recording being part of the evidence. If the recording was not part of the evidence how could it possibly be proved that the transcript was accurate and not just a made up story.

 

The recording, which is the best evidence,  must be lodged as evidence at the same time as any transcript of the recording because of the disclosure rules. You can not enter evidence, such as the tape, after the hearing has started. Once it is admitted as evidence the judge will decide whether or not to allow its admission taking into account such things as how the recording was obtained. ie was the person being recorded aware he/she was being recorded.

 

As we obviously disagree the only way that this will be resolved will be if you ever take a case to court and successfully admit a transcript of a tape recording as evidence with out the tape recording being part of the evidence and the judge allows it

 

 

 

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beenrippedoff
Aspiring Contributor
1,511 Views
Message 39 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

Thanks for all that.
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Cliffy1
Beginner
1,488 Views
Message 40 of 42

Re: Formal Complaints - Ombudsman Services

One of the problems with ofcom is that they cover only a narrow spectrum of complaint issues, for example our bt box shows adult pornography listings which we are unable to remove from the guide, this is apparently due to a fault in the software or not depending on the rep that speaks to you.

I would have thought that this was a safeguarding issue so I contacted ofcom whom then did everything they could to direct me to every other companies department apart from them.

Good luck with your efforts with ofcom, your mileage may differ.
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