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RobbieMac
Moderator
Moderator
953 Views
Message 91 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Hi @OldGreyHair

Thanks for posting back!

That's fine, I'll let @JohnC2 know and he'll be in touch with you again on Friday afternoon Smiley Happy

Cheers,

Robbie

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OldGreyHair
Contributor
926 Views
Message 92 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Many Thanks @CJT80  For Your Message And Time Much Appreciated

Am I getting too old for this???
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CJT80
Recognised Expert
917 Views
Message 93 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

@OldGreyHair

Anytime, 

I also hope your call from @JohnC2 is helpful. 

 

Kind Regards
CJT80
Say thanks by clicking the Thumbs Up icon. Have I resolved your issue? Click "Mark As Accepted Solution"
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OldGreyHair
Contributor
898 Views
Message 94 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Thank You @JohnC2 For Your Phone Call Today

Decided to let things lie for a week see what happens.

I do expect the problem to recur as more activity in the area.

Networx3 Blown Fibre Fibre Optics installation Specialist messing about on the cable route to the Street Cabinet 16 In Tweed Street I thought that was purely the domain of Openreach obviously Not. Inspection covers open cable out on pavement along with what I can only assume is some sort of under ground cable jointing point (about  10 inch Diameter Black Cylindrical object approx 2.5 ft long with cable running in and Out. Across the other side of the main A road again inspection covers open with a work bench which looked as if they were splicing fiber optic cables together.

Strange .

There was also back in 2015 some major cable rerouting  when a large under ground inspection point was moved because of  a reconfiguration of a road junction but this was just beyond the route of cables to Street Cabinet 16 

Am I getting too old for this???
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OldGreyHair
Contributor
875 Views
Message 95 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Hello

Very interesting post by RogerB

Line Crackle ... we all know the end result

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Line-Crackle-we-all-know-the-end-result/td-p/1859739

I do have the recording taken after the third Openreach engineers visit both resting of SmartHub  to orange flashing light and noise on the line. 

My line seems to have settled down but do get occasional noise on the line.

Am I getting too old for this???
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JohnC2
Moderator
Moderator
858 Views
Message 96 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Hi @OldGreyHair I called earlier sorry I missed you. I wanted to check how the connection has been over the last week and if all is ok are you happy for me to close this case.

Cheers
John

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OldGreyHair
Contributor
846 Views
Message 97 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Hello @JohnC2

 Sorry I missed your call.

 What have Openreach done to repair the fault, an underground fault as described by the first engineer that visited. That engineer said he thought he could work round it by changing the pair, he claimed that he had tested the pair and all was good, not so as the same symptoms arose after a week. Did he in fact change the pair?

The second engineer described the infrastructure as poor and that Street Cabinet was well known amongst the engineers for producing many faults so he had given up before he had even started, he had no interest in any rectification of any fault. He even denied the crackling on the line when he phoned to say he was on his way, no confidence in that engineer. The only good thing he had to say was that “your minimum speed is 27Mbps” Incorrect.

The third engineer said there was no problem with the line. I have recordings of the symptoms of the fault before his visit and after his visit, so unless the infrastructure is self healing the fault still exists.

What have Openreach done to repair the fault, nothing I fear so the problem will arise again. The SNR is high, the line attenuation is high. Openreach rule and stipulate everything and cannot be called to question and are untouchable, a very bad situation all round.

Why Are The Public Compelled To Use Third Rate Infrastructure What Do We Pay Line Rental For This Charge Should Be Stopped Until Openreach Bring The Infrastructure Up To An Acceptable Level Not A level That Suits Openreach 

 Still crackling on the line this evening (06/07/18).

 Just Going Round In Circles I feel Very Dizzy.

Am I getting too old for this???
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DanielS
Moderator
Moderator
839 Views
Message 98 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Hi @OldGreyHair,

@JohnC2 is out of the office but will be back on Monday late morning. I will let him know that you were in touch.

Thanks

DanielS

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RogerB
Guru
823 Views
Message 99 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

OldGreyHair ...

I've read your post (all of it) with both interest and trepidation, and firstly I'll say that I don't wish to intervene on a case that is already demanding and seeing high levels of good intention ... both from BT's moderation team and forum team members and community leaders, many of which are highly experienced people. So I'll speak factually ... with no bias toward anybody in particular.

Firstly my recent post although an interesting event, does not resemble your problem ... apart from the fact conscerning line noise. And yes ... line noise does not help any type of broadband at all, whether ADSL or VDSL. I won't go into detail apart from to mention that to transmit any of these systems successfully a reasonable line condition has to exist. I say that guardedly, reason being that the entire BT network is made up of millions of miles of lines, some old and new, some all fibre ... but you'll know that.

The concept of bringing any type of broadband to the public market place is fraught with danger, always has been and a huge amount of R&D by BT, Openreach, major universities etc. has taken place over the years to get us where we are now. The end result to satisfy the demands of millions of lines of differing nature, is to apply an automated highly complex set of algorithms ... it exists on all lines regarless of carrier whether copper, aluminium, a mix, even fibre alone. To explain all would take too long, but data is "placed" in virtual buckets and sent down the wire using these algorithms ... it has become known as DLM.  Fully automated line management.

You've already had advise from members about constantly resetting your connection, with good reason.

But getting back to your problem ... the weakest link in ADSL or VDSL is the metallic paths and yours sounds like a mix of fibre to the cabinet and underground aluminium, and possible copper as well, who knows? But it is your line.

To remain unbiased, it's understandable for everybody to want the best they can have, but from the suppliers angle it's not always financially viable, but later on with future project management may become apparent, a fact of life.

And the main reason DLM exists ... it can't always give you the best outcome, but it will try and in most cases succeed or at least partially succeed on bad lines ... provided you let it. And why it's bad news to keep resetting it willy nilly, even through frustration. It has to learn logically using complex maths and time.

Aluminium has its own agenda with data transmission and causes problems not just with line transmission but the ability to pull in undesirable influences , all causing poor data traverse, one of the engineers mentioned it to you.

Aside from that issue, it's poor where it's jointed but so is copper if it's in an oxygen rich environment with moisture and warmth. It causes oxidation, added resistance, added attenuation and depending on how bad ... slower transmission or even line breach. And those factors become automatic so far as broadband is conscerned, and cause line noise when on the phone.

I can understand the frustration of the line engineers at their findings, as I can your predicament. But I'll add one thing.

A number of years ago I lived in East Lindsey and actually had a good friend who worked for Openreach, and in one instance my line (rural) went bad, and lucky for me ... he attended, purely by chance, not through choice.

He looked and tested and did all things within the remit of his role and told me the truth, not necessarily what I wanted to hear ... but the truth, it was always going to be flaky with broadband. I was at the end of a line with a 57db loop loss and had no crackle ... but a hiss, constantly. And that hiss was destroying the part of the frequency spectrum that should have been available for broadband transmission, a bit like the noise you're describing ... but any noise is not good.

There's no way on this planet my line was ever going to get changed to a new one ... cost ineffective, and do I blame Openreach?  No .... blame previous governments for lack of investment. (going no further there)

But this is the interesting bit, as well as having a filtered faceplate, as even then it was the best option for ADSL, he also fitted a small square filter across the pairs in the back of the faceplate, and if memory serves me right he called it an R1 filter ... but I may be wrong, it was years ago.

With both fitted my line sustained full time broadband, even though it was low speed, and background noise was somewhat more abaited through it. And the bonus was ... as I explained earlier, DLM allowed my line to stay connected and become self healing.

Now ... I don't know whether today's BTo engineers are even allowed to make such judgement calls, or whether in fact using extra line filters above the SSFP you have ... is either allowed or even useful, because the latest versions are allegedly the dog's doodies .... but it was worth mentioning.

But some things you need to do:

Listen to advice on here, it's all good stuff, especially if you don't fully understand how systems work.

With the best will in the world, just because you can't have something because of the laws of physics, or even the laws of economical sense, it's neither BT's nor Openreach's fault.  Everybody has rules and guidelines.

But if you do get another visit, go with the flow, and remember the engineer's human regardless of his ability, which in data communications ... a specialised field ... sometimes doesn't have the perfect outcome.

One thing is certain though, if you are granted access to moderators on this forum, they are there to help as best they can, and have abilities to communicate quickly and effectively with those that need to know, don't underestimate them, regardless of outcomes. The folks on this forum and the moderators have helped thousands ... and even cases that look bad often have a good outcome.

Good Luck.

pippincp
Sage
807 Views
Message 100 of 103

Re: Hanging Up Phone Reboots Router.

Best post in this thread. Nice one @RogerB

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