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Distinguished Guru
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Message 51 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

I think you misunderstand what that checkbox option does.

 

Maybe I do, maybe I don't....

 

(that isn't the UI I was referring to, but never mind...)

 

Ah, I thought we were discussing the Fon app only, not the UI on the phone

 

I thought we were discussing killing the BT Fon app...

 

We are, though I did think we were only using the UI of the app - but at least I know now

 

It does disable the functionality of the app, in that with it unchecked the app won't offer to login to an available Fon access point.

 

Yes, that's certainly the case.

 

The app doesn't actually make the connection (the device wireless gubbins does that - automatically if configured that way - I thought we'd covered this earlier in this thread...) regardless of whether the Fon app is installed.

 

Surely the app does actually make the connection as it takes over the pre installed wireless gubbins. Without the app the pre installed wireless manager sorts this out - automatically if set that way.

 

I don't think so.  (Why reinvent the wheel ?)

 

I still doSmiley Very Happy but it doesn't matter that much to me. Although a mod could confirm either way?

 

The app, which is obviously running as you're looking at it, is merely reporting the state of the wireless interface. That information is already available elsewhere - the Fon app is simply replicating that.

 

Does it need to do this?

 

I think so, yes.

 

I still don't, as you've mentioned, the information is available elsewhere and.....

 

I'd expect it only to show 'connected to Fon/Openzone' or 'currently not connected to Fon/Openzone'. This to me shows that the app is interrogating my phones wireless manager when it doesn't need to.

 

If it doesn't look at the status of the wireless interface, how does it know that a Fon/Openzone access point is available to login to ?

 

.... as the app would know, via the log in part, if it's connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and only need to show that we are currently (though maybe not successfully) connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

I've asked on here how does the Fon app work as I'd like to know more about this app. For example does it send any info back to BT that has nothing to do with a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

It's not straightforward, but you can discover that for yourself.

 

I'd already guessed that and have my own thoughts on this. I just hope it's not the same as BTDH

 

We already know BT can tell if we're using a hotspot.

 

Of course (usually, but not always) - I don't find that surprising, or worrying, and they don't need any info from the Fon app to do so.

 

"usually, but not always" - hmm, I think they'll know alright. I've already been told they log our connections via Fon/Openzone, but not necessarily where in the UK the hotspot is located - don't know about outside the UK. Indeed the app doesn't tell them this, as you know, it's via our log in credentials.

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that your scenario is unusual. If it's that your Fon app reports that the wireless interface is connected (in this instance) to "Hub3slave", then I don't think that's unusual at all.

 

It has nothing at all to do with "Hub3slave" - which is actually a hub2 acting as wireless extender. It's to do with how the pre installed wireless manager works - with the Fon app installed (ticked or unticked), the pre installed wireless manager works faster than the Fon 'android' techie has ever witnessed. My phone appears to process all the incoming wireless SSID's too quickly. Without the app installed, it runs at about the same speed as an iPhone.

 

edit. Also with the app installed (ticked or unticked) my phone will not always connect to my hubs or any other router (connection details saved to phone). When the phone is set to manual, it often takes 3+ attempts before it will connect to an SSID that I want to connect to. No app or simply 'frozen' and either methods work perfectly.

 

Ah - I see.  Does that apply to SSID's other than your own too ? 

 

Yep, but only seems to occur when Fon/Openzone hotspots are also available. My connection was to another ISP's router

 

Personally, I would never suggest it's a good idea to root the device, with all the possible heartache that lies there, and install unnecessary software in order to perform a task that's already doable with the UI's provided, but each to their own I guess.

 

I'd also never suggest that anyone roots their phone. But the doable task doesn't work on my phone!! With the Fon app ticked or unticked, when I navigate to Settings, Applications, Manage Applications, Running, BTFon and select Force stop, the app does stop for a short time only. Repeating the steps and I'm presented with the app as still running and I can Force stop as many times as I like. Surely if the app has been forced to stop, it shouldn't show up in the running tasks?

 

I stand corrected. For me, the Fon app appears to be restarted whenever the wireless interface is enabled, so shutting it down from Manage Applications will only work until the wireless is switched on again 😞

 

My wireless is only ever turned off when I'm in hospital, other than that it's on 24/7. Guess that's why my phone only shows stopped for a very short duration. Does sound like the app is taking over....Smiley Mad

 

Should it do this?

 

Is it the same for you ?  Which 'phone are you using, with which Android ?

 

I'll turn my wifi off, for a short time, to see if the app stays off till the wifi is turned back on

 

The phone is marketed as a Vodafone, it's actually a Huawei, running Android 2.2.1, baseband version 22201010, kernel version 2.6.32.9-perf





 

 

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IanC
Recognised Expert
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Message 52 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:
[...]

 

The app doesn't actually make the connection (the device wireless gubbins does that - automatically if configured that way - I thought we'd covered this earlier in this thread...) regardless of whether the Fon app is installed.

 

Surely the app does actually make the connection as it takes over the pre installed wireless gubbins. Without the app the pre installed wireless manager sorts this out - automatically if set that way.

 

I don't think so.  (Why reinvent the wheel ?)

 

I still doSmiley Very Happy but it doesn't matter that much to me. Although a mod could confirm either way?

 

If you're connected to nothing (say), and tap the "not connected" box in the BTFon app, it takes you to the standard wireless controls for connecting/disconnecting etc...

 

The app, which is obviously running as you're looking at it, is merely reporting the state of the wireless interface. That information is already available elsewhere - the Fon app is simply replicating that.

 

Does it need to do this?

 

I think so, yes.

 

I still don't, as you've mentioned, the information is available elsewhere and.....

 

Yes, and as I've also mentioned elsewhere, the app is simply replicating that info. Why do you think that's evidence that the app is doing the work ?

 

It would be trivial to change that behaviour to read either of "connected to BT Fon" or "not connected to BT Fon", but I think the "not connected..." message would be rather less informative than showing that, although you're not connect to Fon, you are in fact connected to something else.

 

It's only display...it could just as easily be a representation of pong - what would that tell you ?

 

I'd expect it only to show 'connected to Fon/Openzone' or 'currently not connected to Fon/Openzone'. This to me shows that the app is interrogating my phones wireless manager when it doesn't need to.

 

See above. And before. And below. If it doesn't monitor the wireless interface, it doesn't know when a Fon hotspot is available.

That's no evidence though that the app is controlling the interface. Why do you think it is ?

 

If it doesn't look at the status of the wireless interface, how does it know that a Fon/Openzone access point is available to login to ?

 

.... as the app would know, via the log in part, if it's connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and only need to show that we are currently (though maybe not successfully) connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

The connection and login are two separate actions. One happens before the other.

 

I've asked on here how does the Fon app work as I'd like to know more about this app. For example does it send any info back to BT that has nothing to do with a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

It's not straightforward, but you can discover that for yourself.

 

I'd already guessed that and have my own thoughts on this. I just hope it's not the same as BTDH

 

I've my own thoughts too. 🙂

 

We already know BT can tell if we're using a hotspot.

 

Of course (usually, but not always) - I don't find that surprising, or worrying, and they don't need any info from the Fon app to do so.

 

"usually, but not always" - hmm, I think they'll know alright. I've already been told they log our connections via Fon/Openzone, but not necessarily where in the UK the hotspot is located - don't know about outside the UK. Indeed the app doesn't tell them this, as you know, it's via our log in credentials.

 

You need to differentiate between connecting to a hotspot and logging in to Fon.

 

It's possible to connect to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and use The Internet without logging in. I do it all the time. It's almost certainly not how Fon/OZ hotspots are normally used, which is why I used the words that I did.

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that your scenario is unusual. If it's that your Fon app reports that the wireless interface is connected (in this instance) to "Hub3slave", then I don't think that's unusual at all.

 

It has nothing at all to do with "Hub3slave" - which is actually a hub2 acting as wireless extender. It's to do with how the pre installed wireless manager works - with the Fon app installed (ticked or unticked), the pre installed wireless manager works faster than the Fon 'android' techie has ever witnessed. My phone appears to process all the incoming wireless SSID's too quickly. Without the app installed, it runs at about the same speed as an iPhone.

 

edit. Also with the app installed (ticked or unticked) my phone will not always connect to my hubs or any other router (connection details saved to phone). When the phone is set to manual, it often takes 3+ attempts before it will connect to an SSID that I want to connect to. No app or simply 'frozen' and either methods work perfectly.

 

Ah - I see.  Does that apply to SSID's other than your own too ? 

 

Yep, but only seems to occur when Fon/Openzone hotspots are also available.

 

Do you see that as being significant ?  Smiley Wink

 

My connection was to another ISP's router

 

Personally, I would never suggest it's a good idea to root the device, with all the possible heartache that lies there, and install unnecessary software in order to perform a task that's already doable with the UI's provided, but each to their own I guess.

 

I'd also never suggest that anyone roots their phone. But the doable task doesn't work on my phone!! With the Fon app ticked or unticked, when I navigate to Settings, Applications, Manage Applications, Running, BTFon and select Force stop, the app does stop for a short time only. Repeating the steps and I'm presented with the app as still running and I can Force stop as many times as I like. Surely if the app has been forced to stop, it shouldn't show up in the running tasks?

 

I stand corrected. For me, the Fon app appears to be restarted whenever the wireless interface is enabled, so shutting it down from Manage Applications will only work until the wireless is switched on again 😞

 

My wireless is only ever turned off when I'm in hospital, other than that it's on 24/7. Guess that's why my phone only shows stopped for a very short duration. Does sound like the app is taking over....Smiley Mad

 

Should it do this?

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear ?  The app is started whenever the wireless interface is enabled. If you force close the Fon app, it will start again when the interface is next enabled. If the app is stopped while the wireless is enabled, it stays stopped until the wireless interface goes down and then up again. If the wireless remains enabled, the app stays closed.

 

If yours does anything different, it would suggest to me that you probably have something else awry that is interfering with either the Fon app, or the wireless in general, or maybe both. Until it's understood what that is, the behaviour of either will probably be unpredictable.

 

Is it the same for you ?  Which 'phone are you using, with which Android ?

 

I'll turn my wifi off, for a short time, to see if the app stays off till the wifi is turned back on

 

The phone is marketed as a Vodafone, it's actually a Huawei, running Android 2.2.1, baseband version 22201010, kernel version 2.6.32.9-perf

 

That's not very different to my HTC. 

 

Bugs in the Android wireless subsystem are well documented...

GeneralDisquiet
Aspiring Expert
1,531 Views
Message 53 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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@DS wrote:


@IanC wrote:


@DS wrote:


@IanC wrote:

 

Errrrrr - I'm clearly missing a trick here.  Who is writing in red?

"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
-- Michel de Montaigne, Essays, 1559

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 54 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:
[...]

 

The app doesn't actually make the connection (the device wireless gubbins does that - automatically if configured that way - I thought we'd covered this earlier in this thread...) regardless of whether the Fon app is installed.

 

Surely the app does actually make the connection as it takes over the pre installed wireless gubbins. Without the app the pre installed wireless manager sorts this out - automatically if set that way.

 

I don't think so.  (Why reinvent the wheel ?)

 

I still doSmiley Very Happy but it doesn't matter that much to me. Although a mod could confirm either way?

 

If you're connected to nothing (say), and tap the "not connected" box in the BTFon app, it takes you to the standard wireless controls for connecting/disconnecting etc...

 

When I mentioned "takes over", I mean the app must control the wireless manager, thus the app makes the connection by giving the manager the instruction to run. In a fashion you have clarified this as when using the app without a wireless connection, it (the app) then opens the wireless manager.

 

The app, which is obviously running as you're looking at it, is merely reporting the state of the wireless interface. That information is already available elsewhere - the Fon app is simply replicating that.

 

Does it need to do this?

 

I think so, yes.

 

I still don't, as you've mentioned, the information is available elsewhere and.....

 

Yes, and as I've also mentioned elsewhere, the app is simply replicating that info. Why do you think that's evidence that the app is doing the work ?

 

The app is replicating the information that has no relevance to using the app. The app is for Fon and Openzone only, it doesn't (IMO) need to know anything about any other wireless connections. The app is working as it's retrieving the info from elsewhere on the phone. The phone wouldn't send this info to the app unless it was asked to.

 

It would be trivial to change that behaviour to read either of "connected to BT Fon" or "not connected to BT Fon", but I think the "not connected..." message would be rather less informative than showing that, although you're not connect to Fon, you are in fact connected to something else.

 

As above

 

It's only display...it could just as easily be a representation of pong - what would that tell you ?

 

That ping is on holiday!Smiley Very Happy

 

I'd expect it only to show 'connected to Fon/Openzone' or 'currently not connected to Fon/Openzone'. This to me shows that the app is interrogating my phones wireless manager when it doesn't need to.

 

See above. And before. And below. If it doesn't monitor the wireless interface, it doesn't know when a Fon hotspot is available.

That's no evidence though that the app is controlling the interface. Why do you think it is ?

 

Monitoring available Fon/Openzone wireless connections would be needed, probably by checking the MAC Address of Fon and Openzone, it (IMO) doesn't need to replicate the non Fon/Openzone SSID's. As we've discovered, by turning it off with the wireless active, it fires back in, even when the app isn't needed (we're connected to a non Fon/Openzone SSID). So the app is controlling the phone by letting the phone allow the app to restart.

 

Though, is any of this monitoring being sent back to BT....?

 

If it doesn't look at the status of the wireless interface, how does it know that a Fon/Openzone access point is available to login to ?

 

.... as the app would know, via the log in part, if it's connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and only need to show that we are currently (though maybe not successfully) connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

The connection and login are two separate actions. One happens before the other.

 

I've asked on here how does the Fon app work as I'd like to know more about this app. For example does it send any info back to BT that has nothing to do with a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

It's not straightforward, but you can discover that for yourself.

 

I'd already guessed that and have my own thoughts on this. I just hope it's not the same as BTDH

 

I've my own thoughts too. 🙂

 

We already know BT can tell if we're using a hotspot.

 

Of course (usually, but not always) - I don't find that surprising, or worrying, and they don't need any info from the Fon app to do so.

 

"usually, but not always" - hmm, I think they'll know alright. I've already been told they log our connections via Fon/Openzone, but not necessarily where in the UK the hotspot is located - don't know about outside the UK. Indeed the app doesn't tell them this, as you know, it's via our log in credentials.

 

You need to differentiate between connecting to a hotspot and logging in to Fon.

 

It's possible to connect to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and use The Internet without logging in. I do it all the time. It's almost certainly not how Fon/OZ hotspots are normally used, which is why I used the words that I did.

 

Indeed, I've been looking into this for some time nowSmiley Wink - BT should IMHO close any open backdoors in anything they provide..... though thinking about it, having backdoors to Fon and Openzone would affect meSmiley Happy

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that your scenario is unusual. If it's that your Fon app reports that the wireless interface is connected (in this instance) to "Hub3slave", then I don't think that's unusual at all.

 

It has nothing at all to do with "Hub3slave" - which is actually a hub2 acting as wireless extender. It's to do with how the pre installed wireless manager works - with the Fon app installed (ticked or unticked), the pre installed wireless manager works faster than the Fon 'android' techie has ever witnessed. My phone appears to process all the incoming wireless SSID's too quickly. Without the app installed, it runs at about the same speed as an iPhone.

 

edit. Also with the app installed (ticked or unticked) my phone will not always connect to my hubs or any other router (connection details saved to phone). When the phone is set to manual, it often takes 3+ attempts before it will connect to an SSID that I want to connect to. No app or simply 'frozen' and either methods work perfectly.

 

Ah - I see.  Does that apply to SSID's other than your own too ? 

 

Yep, but only seems to occur when Fon/Openzone hotspots are also available.

 

Do you see that as being significant ?  Smiley Wink

 

Yes - To add, only when the app is installed and in it's normal state.

 

My connection was to another ISP's router

 

Personally, I would never suggest it's a good idea to root the device, with all the possible heartache that lies there, and install unnecessary software in order to perform a task that's already doable with the UI's provided, but each to their own I guess.

 

I'd also never suggest that anyone roots their phone. But the doable task doesn't work on my phone!! With the Fon app ticked or unticked, when I navigate to Settings, Applications, Manage Applications, Running, BTFon and select Force stop, the app does stop for a short time only. Repeating the steps and I'm presented with the app as still running and I can Force stop as many times as I like. Surely if the app has been forced to stop, it shouldn't show up in the running tasks?

 

I stand corrected. For me, the Fon app appears to be restarted whenever the wireless interface is enabled, so shutting it down from Manage Applications will only work until the wireless is switched on again 😞

 

My wireless is only ever turned off when I'm in hospital, other than that it's on 24/7. Guess that's why my phone only shows stopped for a very short duration. Does sound like the app is taking over....Smiley Mad

 

Should it do this?

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear ?  The app is started whenever the wireless interface is enabled. If you force close the Fon app, it will start again when the interface is next enabled. If the app is stopped while the wireless is enabled, it stays stopped until the wireless interface goes down and then up again. If the wireless remains enabled, the app stays closed.

 

From my own observations, the app fires back in after a few mins, even if the wireless interface has not dropped - checking the hubs event log does back up that it didn't drop, as did the visual notification on the phone.

 

If yours does anything different, it would suggest to me that you probably have something else awry that is interfering with either the Fon app, or the wireless in general, or maybe both. Until it's understood what that is, the behaviour of either will probably be unpredictable.

 

I did factory reset the phone 3 times when trying to sort out problems with the app. Additional software has only been installed after the problems persisted. As mentioned this software has cure the problems

 

Is it the same for you ?  Which 'phone are you using, with which Android ?

 

I'll turn my wifi off, for a short time, to see if the app stays off till the wifi is turned back on

 

The phone is marketed as a Vodafone, it's actually a Huawei, running Android 2.2.1, baseband version 22201010, kernel version 2.6.32.9-perf

 

That's not very different to my HTC. 

 

Bugs in the Android wireless subsystem are well documented...

 

Been reading up on this too


@ GD, hope this answers your Q!!Smiley Very Happy

 

 

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Message 55 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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It might well answer GD's question, but it still doesnt change my opinion that its that gawdy it wouldnt look out of place on a Friday night on the Reeperbahn. Smiley Wink

AQ.
"Welcome to Royston Vasey - You'll never leave."

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 56 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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Well based on your last exploration, I'm trying to use all the colours on the postcard you sent meSmiley Very Happy

 

 

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Message 57 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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ROFL  Smiley Very Happy

AQ.
"Welcome to Royston Vasey - You'll never leave."

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IanC
Recognised Expert
1,472 Views
Message 58 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

Go to solution

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:
[...]

 

The app doesn't actually make the connection (the device wireless gubbins does that - automatically if configured that way - I thought we'd covered this earlier in this thread...) regardless of whether the Fon app is installed.

 

Surely the app does actually make the connection as it takes over the pre installed wireless gubbins. Without the app the pre installed wireless manager sorts this out - automatically if set that way.

 

I don't think so.  (Why reinvent the wheel ?)

 

I still doSmiley Very Happy but it doesn't matter that much to me. Although a mod could confirm either way?

 

If you're connected to nothing (say), and tap the "not connected" box in the BTFon app, it takes you to the standard wireless controls for connecting/disconnecting etc...

 

When I mentioned "takes over", I mean the app must control the wireless manager,

 

Yes. (although that's not quite what you said before...)

 

thus the app makes the connection by giving the manager the instruction to run.

 

No - the app talks to the WiFiManager via the standard Android provided API.

WiFiManager makes the connection.

 

This isn't just me being pedantic. It's these subtle differences, I think, that are the reason for your confusion.

 

In a fashion you have clarified this as when using the app without a wireless connection, it (the app) then opens the wireless manager.

 

Yup - and WiFiManager makes the connection.

 

The app, which is obviously running as you're looking at it, is merely reporting the state of the wireless interface. That information is already available elsewhere - the Fon app is simply replicating that.

 

Does it need to do this?

 

I think so, yes.

 

I still don't, as you've mentioned, the information is available elsewhere and.....

 

Yes, and as I've also mentioned elsewhere, the app is simply replicating that info. Why do you think that's evidence that the app is doing the work ?

 

The app is replicating the information that has no relevance to using the app.

 

I disagree. Mine sometimes shows " connected to unsecured network", which I find useful to know.

 

The app is for Fon and Openzone only, it doesn't (IMO) need to know anything about any other wireless connections. The app is working as it's retrieving the info from elsewhere on the phone. The phone wouldn't send this info to the app unless it was asked to.

 

The 'phone doesn't send it to the app - the app reads it, via the Android wireless API.  It's there for anything that wants it - nothing special is happening in order for the app to show it, beyond the app asking WiFiManager "could you tell me the status of the wireless interface please"

 

I really don't see why you consider that a problem or, more to the point, why you think it might be relevant to your particular problem.

 

It would be trivial to change that behaviour to read either of "connected to BT Fon" or "not connected to BT Fon", but I think the "not connected..." message would be rather less informative than showing that, although you're not connect to Fon, you are in fact connected to something else.

 

As above

 

It's only display...it could just as easily be a representation of pong - what would that tell you ?

 

That ping is on holiday!Smiley Very Happy

 

I'd expect it only to show 'connected to Fon/Openzone' or 'currently not connected to Fon/Openzone'. This to me shows that the app is interrogating my phones wireless manager when it doesn't need to.

 

See above. And before. And below. If it doesn't monitor the wireless interface, it doesn't know when a Fon hotspot is available.

That's no evidence though that the app is controlling the interface. Why do you think it is ?

 

Monitoring available Fon/Openzone wireless connections would be needed,

 

No - just read the status of the wireless interface from WiFiManager.

 

probably by checking the MAC Address of Fon and Openzone,

 

/boggle!/

 

it (IMO) doesn't need to replicate the non Fon/Openzone SSID's. As we've discovered, by turning it off with the wireless active, it fires back in, even when the app isn't needed (we're connected to a non Fon/Openzone SSID).

 

You, it seems, see that behaviour. I've seen nothing like that, either on my own device or a couple of others that I've looked at recently.

 

So the app is controlling the phone by letting the phone allow the app to restart.

 

/boggle!/

 

Though, is any of this monitoring being sent back to BT....?

 

What monitoring ?  Of what ? 

 

If it doesn't look at the status of the wireless interface, how does it know that a Fon/Openzone access point is available to login to ?

 

.... as the app would know, via the log in part, if it's connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and only need to show that we are currently (though maybe not successfully) connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

The connection and login are two separate actions. One happens before the other.

 

I was kinda hoping there, that you could tell me how you can be logged in before connection to an access point, or when connection to the hotspot was unsucessful...

 

I've asked on here how does the Fon app work as I'd like to know more about this app. For example does it send any info back to BT that has nothing to do with a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

It's not straightforward, but you can discover that for yourself.

 

I'd already guessed that and have my own thoughts on this. I just hope it's not the same as BTDH

 

I've my own thoughts too. 🙂

 

We already know BT can tell if we're using a hotspot.

 

Of course (usually, but not always) - I don't find that surprising, or worrying, and they don't need any info from the Fon app to do so.

 

"usually, but not always" - hmm, I think they'll know alright. I've already been told they log our connections via Fon/Openzone, but not necessarily where in the UK the hotspot is located - don't know about outside the UK. Indeed the app doesn't tell them this, as you know, it's via our log in credentials.

 

You need to differentiate between connecting to a hotspot and logging in to Fon.

 

It's possible to connect to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and use The Internet without logging in. I do it all the time. It's almost certainly not how Fon/OZ hotspots are normally used, which is why I used the words that I did.

 

Indeed, I've been looking into this for some time nowSmiley Wink -

 

Yet you appeared to doubt me when I wrote "usually, but not always" ?

 

[...]


Perhaps I wasn't clear ?  The app is started whenever the wireless interface is enabled. If you force close the Fon app, it will start again when the interface is next enabled. If the app is stopped while the wireless is enabled, it stays stopped until the wireless interface goes down and then up again. If the wireless remains enabled, the app stays closed.

 

From my own observations, the app fires back in after a few mins, even if the wireless interface has not dropped - checking the hubs event log does back up that it didn't drop, as did the visual notification on the phone.

 

If yours does anything different, it would suggest to me that you probably have something else awry that is interfering with either the Fon app, or the wireless in general, or maybe both. Until it's understood what that is, the behaviour of either will probably be unpredictable.

 

[the above deliberately left - I think it's very relevant]

 

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Message 59 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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OMG, they're still at it, hammer and tong............

 

scr.jpg

 

Still, every cloud has a silver lining....GD and I now beginning to appear quite normal now on the sister post in "The Lounge," thanks lads.  Smiley Wink

AQ.
"Welcome to Royston Vasey - You'll never leave."

Distinguished Guru
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Message 60 of 67

Re: How does the BT Fon app work?

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@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:

@DS wrote:

@IanC wrote:
[...]

 

The app doesn't actually make the connection (the device wireless gubbins does that - automatically if configured that way - I thought we'd covered this earlier in this thread...) regardless of whether the Fon app is installed.

 

Surely the app does actually make the connection as it takes over the pre installed wireless gubbins. Without the app the pre installed wireless manager sorts this out - automatically if set that way.

 

I don't think so.  (Why reinvent the wheel ?)

 

I still doSmiley Very Happy but it doesn't matter that much to me. Although a mod could confirm either way?

 

If you're connected to nothing (say), and tap the "not connected" box in the BTFon app, it takes you to the standard wireless controls for connecting/disconnecting etc...

 

When I mentioned "takes over", I mean the app must control the wireless manager,

 

Yes. (although that's not quite what you said before...)

 

So you agree that the app controls the wireless manager?

(Sorry for not making this clearer before)

 

thus the app makes the connection by giving the manager the instruction to run.

 

No - the app talks to the WiFiManager via the standard Android provided API.

WiFiManager makes the connection.

 

By being given the instruction. The app says "hello, can you run please?" - the app makes something happen - makes the connection by giving an instruction

 

This isn't just me being pedantic. It's these subtle differences, I think, that are the reason for your confusion.

 

I'd never call you pedanticSmiley Wink

I was confused long before all thisSmiley Very Happy

 

In a fashion you have clarified this as when using the app without a wireless connection, it (the app) then opens the wireless manager.

 

Yup - and WiFiManager makes the connection.

 

As the app controls it - you did agree earlier in your reply

by taking over and instructing....... making 'it' happen - making the connection (via the manager)

 

But yes I fully understand and accept why you said the manager makes the connection.

 

The wireless manager makes the connection by being asked/made/forced(?) to do this by the app (read above)

 

The app, which is obviously running as you're looking at it, is merely reporting the state of the wireless interface. That information is already available elsewhere - the Fon app is simply replicating that.

 

Does it need to do this?

 

I think so, yes.

 

I still don't, as you've mentioned, the information is available elsewhere and.....

 

Yes, and as I've also mentioned elsewhere, the app is simply replicating that info. Why do you think that's evidence that the app is doing the work ?

 

The app is replicating the information that has no relevance to using the app.

 

I disagree. Mine sometimes shows " connected to unsecured network", which I find useful to know.

 

I too have this when logged on to a open SSID - nowt to do with BT, so why would the app need to replicate this. I don't (normally, bar for this thread) open the app when I'm on my own SSID or an open SSID - I only use the app when I connect to BTF/O.

 

The app is for Fon and Openzone only, it doesn't (IMO) need to know anything about any other wireless connections. The app is working as it's retrieving the info from elsewhere on the phone. The phone wouldn't send this info to the app unless it was asked to.

 

The 'phone doesn't send it to the app - the app reads it, via the Android wireless API.  It's there for anything that wants it - nothing special is happening in order for the app to show it, beyond the app asking WiFiManager "could you tell me the status of the wireless interface please"

 

Ok, the phone allows it to be read, as the app asks "can I read this" even though the app doesn't need to know this as it's only for BTF/O

 

I really don't see why you consider that a problem or, more to the point, why you think it might be relevant to your particular problem.

 

Freezing the app = no info requested or read by the app = working wireless manager

App running 'normally' = "what you doing manager" - wireless goes loopy

 

It would be trivial to change that behaviour to read either of "connected to BT Fon" or "not connected to BT Fon", but I think the "not connected..." message would be rather less informative than showing that, although you're not connect to Fon, you are in fact connected to something else.

 

As above

 

It's only display...it could just as easily be a representation of pong - what would that tell you ?

 

That ping is on holiday!Smiley Very Happy

 

I'd expect it only to show 'connected to Fon/Openzone' or 'currently not connected to Fon/Openzone'. This to me shows that the app is interrogating my phones wireless manager when it doesn't need to.

 

See above. And before. And below. If it doesn't monitor the wireless interface, it doesn't know when a Fon hotspot is available.

That's no evidence though that the app is controlling the interface. Why do you think it is ?

 

Monitoring available Fon/Openzone wireless connections would be needed,

 

No - just read the status of the wireless interface from WiFiManager.

 

But this reading could be the reason why I'm having problems, what with this app and any other app reading the state of the wireless does - could be one too many, but freezing this app and the phone is working as one expects

 

probably by checking the MAC Address of Fon and Openzone,

 

/boggle!/

 

it (IMO) doesn't need to replicate the non Fon/Openzone SSID's. As we've discovered, by turning it off with the wireless active, it fires back in, even when the app isn't needed (we're connected to a non Fon/Openzone SSID).

 

You, it seems, see that behaviour. I've seen nothing like that, either on my own device or a couple of others that I've looked at recently.

 

I'm sure I read that you "stand corrected" - I need to re read earlier posts to confirm

 

So the app is controlling the phone by letting the phone allow the app to restart.

 

/boggle!/

 

Though, is any of this monitoring being sent back to BT....?

 

What monitoring ?  Of what ?

 

The app monitoring the state of the wireless manager and what the manager is connected to

(by the app reading information).

 

If it doesn't look at the status of the wireless interface, how does it know that a Fon/Openzone access point is available to login to ?

 

.... as the app would know, via the log in part, if it's connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and only need to show that we are currently (though maybe not successfully) connected to a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

The connection and login are two separate actions. One happens before the other.

 

I was kinda hoping there, that you could tell me how you can be logged in before connection to an access point, or when connection to the hotspot was unsucessful...

 

(Without using other methods of bypassing the log in credentials page) you can't be logged in to surf the www prior to the connection to Fon/Openzone. The app can report you're connected to Fon/Openzone without being logged in to Fon/openzone and the app can report it failed to connect

 

I've asked on here how does the Fon app work as I'd like to know more about this app. For example does it send any info back to BT that has nothing to do with a Fon/Openzone hotspot.

 

It's not straightforward, but you can discover that for yourself.

 

I'd already guessed that and have my own thoughts on this. I just hope it's not the same as BTDH

 

I've my own thoughts too. 🙂

 

We already know BT can tell if we're using a hotspot.

 

Of course (usually, but not always) - I don't find that surprising, or worrying, and they don't need any info from the Fon app to do so.

 

"usually, but not always" - hmm, I think they'll know alright. I've already been told they log our connections via Fon/Openzone, but not necessarily where in the UK the hotspot is located - don't know about outside the UK. Indeed the app doesn't tell them this, as you know, it's via our log in credentials.

 

You need to differentiate between connecting to a hotspot and logging in to Fon.

 

It's possible to connect to a Fon/Openzone hotspot and use The Internet without logging in. I do it all the time. It's almost certainly not how Fon/OZ hotspots are normally used, which is why I used the words that I did.

 

Indeed, I've been looking into this for some time nowSmiley Wink -

 

Yet you appeared to doubt me when I wrote "usually, but not always" ?

 

No, merely pointing out that they'll know when we connect

 

[...]


Perhaps I wasn't clear ?  The app is started whenever the wireless interface is enabled. If you force close the Fon app, it will start again when the interface is next enabled. If the app is stopped while the wireless is enabled, it stays stopped until the wireless interface goes down and then up again. If the wireless remains enabled, the app stays closed.

 

From my own observations, the app fires back in after a few mins, even if the wireless interface has not dropped - checking the hubs event log does back up that it didn't drop, as did the visual notification on the phone.

 

If yours does anything different, it would suggest to me that you probably have something else awry that is interfering with either the Fon app, or the wireless in general, or maybe both. Until it's understood what that is, the behaviour of either will probably be unpredictable.

 

[the above deliberately left - I think it's very relevant]

And here's me thinking you liked the coloursSmiley Very Happy



 

 

 

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