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mikeatsg
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 1 of 20

Second VDSL connection

I have two questions relating to a new BT/OR VDSL install. I have had a VDSL line now for about 2 years and after a terrible Christmas period it has settled down at a steady, boring but respectable 15 Mbps DL. This is not quite good enough for Netflix 4k so I decided to add a second VDSL line as a business line and try bonding.

 

After 5 weeks of angst it was installed today by yet another extremely helpful OR engineer. They are great guys! So the second line follows almost the same path as the first. Certainly the distance from the cabinet will be the same to within centimetres. Line 2, however, struggles to get to 8 Mbps. The Availability Checker gives a low of 10 and a max of 15.5 - sensible in light of Line 1 performance. In other words Line 2 is delivering about half the performance of Line 1.

 

I know, and have been warned, that lines take a little time to groom and settle - but half the performance? How long before I likely see an improvement? The engineer seemed a little doubtful and advised me to contact the Broadband Boost division. How do I do this or can a mod please respond.

 

My second, related question is this. I am curious about the whole process and recognize that DSL is as much art as science. I went with the engineer to the cabinet when he went to plug me in so to speak. He tested the lines at the cab and showed me his meter figure for the max output from the Huawi cabinet. It was about 125 Mbps which he told me was of sufficient quality to deliver both an Infinity 1 service (40/10) and an Infinity 2 service (80/20). How do I go about having both lines converted to Infinity 2 - or is it likely to be unavailable even though the cabinet is capable?

 

I should mention that the cabinet is located in a ridiculous place. It is set on the edge of green fields almost 1 km from the nearest village dwellings. The best performance in the village is likely to be about half of the peak 40/20 performance that the cabinet is capable of. The average for the village is about 5 Mbps DL (Ofcom data Summer 2015).

 

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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 2 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Did you confirm that you could get Line Bonding. As far as I am aware BT do not offer it.

 

Infinity 1 and Infinity 2 are exactly the same product delivered in exactly the same way from the same cabinet. It is only a software cap on the Infinity 1 product to limit the maximum speed delivered to 52Mbps if the line is capable of delivering more.

 

It would make no difference to you if you were on Infinity 2. Your line(s) can only deliver the maximum that the line is capable of and that is mainly determined by the distance to the cabinet. If you can only get 15mbps on Infinity 1 that is all you will get on Infinity 2.

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pippincp
Sage
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Message 3 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

@gg30340BT don't need to offer it, you can do it yourself with the right router.

mikeatsg
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 4 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Thank you for your response gg. I will do my own line bonding and, initially at least, I am getting about 21 Mbps from the pair of bonded lines. So it appears to work.

 

I have questions to your points. So there is a software cap of 52 Mbps on a line that is theoretically capable of more than twice that amount. I know it is, the engineer showed me. Why do that? Can I have my cap raised?

 

You write - The lines will deliver only what they are capable of. Well of course, but my question was - Lines 1 and 2 are nominally identical, same distance, same number of bends and junctions. Why does Line 1 deliver DL of 15 and Line 2 just over half that at 8? The engineer told me to request help from Broadband Boost Engineering. What is that? How do I set about it?

 

Thank you.

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Webby
Distinguished Sage
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Message 5 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

It's probably crosstalk.

I read on another forum where a guy got a second line to do something similar. His original line got something like 30meg, when the second was installed he was able to get 30meg on each line, but only when one router was switched on. When he tried to use them at the same time, each could only achieve 22meg, due to crosstalk.
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mikeatsg
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Message 6 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Don't think that's the reason. I switched off the first (15 Mbps Home Hub) and nothing changes on the second. Still about 8Mbps.

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gg30340
Distinguished Sage
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Message 7 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection


@mikeatsg wrote:

Thank you for your response gg. I will do my own line bonding and, initially at least, I am getting about 21 Mbps from the pair of bonded lines. So it appears to work.

 

I have questions to your points. So there is a software cap of 52 Mbps on a line that is theoretically capable of more than twice that amount. I know it is, the engineer showed me. Why do that? Can I have my cap raised? The line is not theoretically capable of more than twice 52mbps. More than twice that is being delivered to the cabinet and to your line but the speed that your line can deliver at the end point is governed by the distance it is from the cabinet. If you are over 1 km from the cabinet it would not matter if the cap was raised or not because your line at that distance would be unable to deliver it. See graph below for speed over distance on a perfect line.

 

You write - The lines will deliver only what they are capable of. Well of course, but my question was - Lines 1 and 2 are nominally identical, same distance, same number of bends and junctions. Why does Line 1 deliver DL of 15 and Line 2 just over half that at 8? The engineer told me to request help from Broadband Boost Engineering. What is that? How do I set about it? The lines may be of different thicknesses and that could account for difference in speed. You would need to contact BT and report a fault during which you should ask for a boost engineer to investigate.

 

Thank you.


FTTC-speed-distance-graph.png

 

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mikeatsg
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 8 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Thank you GG. What you say makes sense. I think you've answered the point about capping. The ouput isn't capped but frequency considerations dictate range. Fair enough - physics is physics.

 

I should again point out that the cabinet is located in a daft place. Only a half dozen village premises are located within 1 km of the cabinet. I've plugged in the number of one place at 100 m from the cabinet and the given high is 79 Mbps. The pub is 900 m and comes up with a DL high of 19. I'm at 1.7 km and my high is 15.5. My good line gives me 15. These figures are somewhat lower than the graph would suggest but close enough I suppose.

 

My first line was put in about 3 years ago and I was number 3 in the cabinet. The new, second line is number 150 or thereabouts. So, amazingly, it might very well be that the newer installed lines are of lower quality than the originals. And indeed my nice engineer suggested I get a boost engineer to investigate - so I will next week. However, what chance do you think I will have? Does he swap over line after line until, maybe, he finds a good one? Standing at the roadside with my engineer last night in the rain he gave up trying to do a swap because he had already been "on hold" for 45 minutes and his batteries ran out. I'm not hopeful of this!

 

I've been reading the other thread on cancellation and it seems to me that the best thing to do is to ask BT to collect their junk and go away. The download handback threshold is 7.9. I can only manage 8.1 so best to throw them out within my cooling off period I think.

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gg30340
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Message 9 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Doing as you have done and what you are no doubt paying for the second line is in my opinion not worth the gain. You could try a boost engineer to see if he/she can improve things.

 

Obviously it is your choice what you do but personally I would have just accepted that I am too far from the cabinet to get much better than 15mbps and live in the hope that some time in the future BT will move the cabinet nearer to the village (unlikely) or that technology will boost the distance that VDSL can travel.

 

 

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Webby
Distinguished Sage
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Message 10 of 20

Re: Second VDSL connection

Did you resync the second line when you switched the first off?

It might not even be your other line which is the subscriber causing the crosstalk, it's all about where the cables lie in the bunch as they leave the cabinet.

Either way I'd wait the 10 days then request an engineer visit if you're under the minimum expected speed. BT won't send out an engineer in the first 10 days unless you have a total loss of service.
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