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naxman
Aspiring Contributor
3,791 Views
Message 1 of 21

BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

We have noticed that after changing to VOIP (the phone now plugs directly into the hub from the phone master base uinit) the call guardian /Truecall service on our phone handset has stopped working and withheld numbers are not challenged and come straight through.  This is on a BT500 phone using the Truecall system, simply put numbers not in the phones contacts, withheld numbers or overseas numbers should be challenged.  The phone should not ring, the caller is asked to state their name then press #, the phone then rings saying we have an announced call and we hear the caller's name and decide if we want to take the call.  This is a great system and has worked well for 5 years.  We thought the phone must be at fault as Caller ID is enabled and working.  So we bought new phone BT Premium Phone, installed it, same issue.

CLI is working;  I took my mobile out of the contacts list and rang home and my mobile number was displayed on the Premium Phone correctly but I was not challenges as the Truecall software is designed to do.  I then withheld my number on my mobile and dialed home again - the Premium Phone displayed WITHHELD NUMBER even though the announce function /Truecall on the Premium Phone is activated.

Is it the case that BT phones using  Call Guardian/Truecall are not compatible with Virgin's VOIP service?  Neither BT or Virgin give any information on this.  Are customers not on BT just wasting their money purchasing BT phones that won't work on other providers VOIP networks?

At a loss how to try to resolve this, anyone any ideas?

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iniltous
Guru
3,785 Views
Message 2 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

You seem to be asking the wrong question , your phone worked fine on a POTS system, you moved to VOIP.

Shouldn't  the question be why hasn’t the VOIP provider made their network compatible with existing equipment.

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naxman
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 3 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

We can play question tennis all day, my point is that NEITHER major provider is coming clean with compatibility issues if that is in fact the case.

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imjolly
Distinguished Sage
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Message 4 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

BT have similar connection with their digital voice service and although you can connect phone to router unless it is one of the newer digital voice phones it will work but not all the features



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naxman
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 5 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

Ok so the claim stops 100% of nuisance calls is only true in certain circumstances. I wonder what tradings standards will say?

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iniltous
Guru
3,754 Views
Message 6 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

Cannot find a BT 500 , but a BT8500 advert states blocks up to 100% of nuisance calls, that to me stops short of claiming it blocks all nuisance calls, semantics possibly, but it’s the world we live in.
If the device is ‘true call’ then presumably any case to its adherence to any claims made would be for true call to justify, presumably a BT branded phone just has a licence for their technology.
The point is , the true call works on ‘CLI’ , basically on a POTS system, before ringing is applied , a FSK data burst is sent ( FSK , frequency shift keying ) , so if CLI is present , and you have caller display , then the calling line info is displayed.....all call blocking phones do is interact with this data ( or lack of it )
You have moved to a VOIP system, that , in order to be compatible with ‘legacy’ equipment , should be designed to mimic a plain old telephony system , your VOIP provider apparently doesn’t currently do this.

There are standard protocols for this type of thing the ITU-T ( formally the CCITT ) set, presumably either your VOIP provider hasn’t implemented the required protocols fully , or the call blocker only guarantees its use on non VOIP systems, either way your call vetting is going to be sub optimal until the VOIP provider tweaks their system.....so ( and I wasn’t being argumentative) the onus is on VM

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imjolly
Distinguished Sage
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Message 7 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working


@naxman wrote:

Ok so the claim stops 100% of nuisance calls is only true in certain circumstances. I wonder what trading standards will say?


probably not a lot as you have not bought a phone for digital VOIP  VM may have an adapter which would help



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naxman
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 8 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

Thanks for the techy info iniltous I think there is an issue for customers here; the average domestic punter who goes to purchase a new landline phone probably doesn't know if he's on VOIP, Pots, Pans or dishcloths!  There are no warnings on the packaging or descriptions online alerting the purchaser to the fact that the products key features possibly might not work on some of the major UK networks, no warning that the customer is buying a pig in a poke.  All that will happen is that BT get a disgruntled purchaser (in this case me).

Just to be even in this, there is nothing on Virgin's site to say that some landline handsets will not have all their inbuilt functionality if they are using their VOIP offering.  Nor do they have a list of compatible handsets for their VOIP offering.

Needless to say I'm having conversations with Virgin too.  BT don't advise customers that the handsets in question BT8500 and Premium Phone may not work on several of the major UK networks (nothing to see on the packaging or online) and Virgin dont advise that if you use their VOIP service some existing tops of the range handsets may not work 100%.

Once again it's the customer holding the baby, wasting money and wasting time.

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SimonSK
Beginner
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Message 9 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

I have just bought a BT Premium Phone and I cannot seem to get it to work correctly.

It does not screen unknown numbers, I have hidden the caller ID from my mobile and call the BT phone and although it shows number withheld, the call rings and goes to answerphone (I have tried setting to Block and Announce but they still get through).

The only way I could get anything to block was by setting my mobile back to display its number and then adding that number to the blocked list. 

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naxman
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 10 of 21

Re: BT Premium Phone on Virgin hub VOIP Truecall function not working

Well  in a discussion in the VM community site Virgin said their systems were compliant:-

Although it is analogue up to the point of the Hub connection, Virgin's Hub based phone system is an IP Voice system from your Hub that goes back to a carrier grade IP Voice Switch within Virgin Media using a separate path to any Virgin Fibre connection you have. It's that Switch that then connects to the PSTN.

But you are right that the CLI system should work exactly the same way as it does on an 'old school' analogue line, as the IP system Virgin Media are using is based on ITU-T standard.

Virgin have also stated that “our 21CV lines are compliant”.

So I contacted TrueCall explaining the problem, they replied:-

We designed the trueCall call blocking system. We sell trueCall boxes that can be plugged in-between your phone and your phone line, and we also licence trueCall features to BT who build them into their phones.

We know that trueCall units will run on Virgin Media fibre lines, but we don't manufacture the BT phones so I can't advise you on their compatibility.

So I sent an email to BT asking if they could help or advise.  I received an automated response then a minute later the following :-

Your message

   To: shop G
   Subject: BT Premium Phone
   Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 12:05:58 PM (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London

 was deleted without being read on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 12:10:01 PM (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London.

I'm now formally escalating the issue.

 

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