Frustration and loathing of the "Smart" Hub 2

[FrogFun]

For years my parents have been happily using FTTC with a 3rd party router, the huawei HG612 modem and not a problem to be found.

Out of contract pricing was very high so renewed broadband. As a "Fibre First" exchange, they had to switch to FTTP and digital voice. BT wouldn't just re-contract on the existing service FTTC, you HAVE to migrate.

Anyways, it's all installed and working.

The problem is digital voice. Because it forces you to use the Smart Hub 2, an utter abomination of a device.

DHCP - Can't set DNS servers on the device or set DNS servers to be issued via DHCP. Forces you to use BT DNS servers. Annoying at a minimum.

Can't use it as a bridge for internet to use a 3rd party router for router purposes. That would have been useful because then the SH2 could be used for voice and a competent device could be used for router functionality.

WiFi....this one just boggles my mind. Turned WiFi off because using the old competent router as a WiFi access point. At least I THOUGHT I turned WiFi off, it says it's off, the SSID doesn't show when scanning for networks....except WiFI channel scanning and connections/disconnections show in the event log. Why would WiFi need to show in the event log when WiFi has been disabled?

BT Public Wifi. Even if you turn WiFi off because of Public WiFi it's never really off. OK, can opt out of it....except my parents actually use it when they're out and about. Which means it has to stay enabled on the abomination of a router.

Have we gone back to the 1970s when you were forced to use a Post Office branded phone or your service wouldn't work? Now you're forced to use a BT router or your landline won't work.
Want a higher security router? Nope, not if you want your phone line to work.

Which means I'm left annoyed and furstrated at the mandated nonsense and being forced to use extremely overpriced and underwhelming hardware. And BT try to make it out to be the best device in existence 😐

[Keith_Beddoe]

@FrogFun 

You can disable the DHCP server on the home hub, and use your own DHCP server. That would allow you to define your own DNS server addresses.

There are plenty of posts on this forum, where people are using their own router connected to a LAN port on the home hub. You do end up with two subnets (double NAT), but that is not normally a problem.

[licquorice]

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@FrogFun wrote:

The problem is digital voice. Because it forces you to use the Smart Hub 2, an utter abomination of a device.

DHCP - Can't set DNS servers on the device or set DNS servers to be issued via DHCP. Forces you to use BT DNS servers. Annoying at a minimum.

Its a cheap and cheerful mass market device, suitable for 99.9% of customers

Can't use it as a bridge for internet to use a 3rd party router for router purposes. That would have been useful because then the SH2 could be used for voice and a competent device could be used for router functionality.

No, how would the SH2 in bridge mode give access to the IP layer for Digital Voice?

WiFi....this one just boggles my mind. Turned WiFi off because using the old competent router as a WiFi access point. At least I THOUGHT I turned WiFi off, it says it's off, the SSID doesn't show when scanning for networks....except WiFI channel scanning and connections/disconnections show in the event log. Why would WiFi need to show in the event log when WiFi has been disabled?

BT Public Wifi. Even if you turn WiFi off because of Public WiFi it's never really off. OK, can opt out of it....except my parents actually use it when they're out and about. Which means it has to stay enabled on the abomination of a router.

Oh, so your parents wish to take advantage of BT WiFi but not reciprocate by providing it!!

Have we gone back to the 1970s when you were forced to use a Post Office branded phone or your service wouldn't work? Now you're forced to use a BT router or your landline won't work.
Want a higher security router? Nope, not if you want your phone line to work.

Nothing preventing you using a third party router and third party VOIP system

😐

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Which means I'm left annoyed and furstrated at the mandated nonsense and being forced to use extremely overpriced and underwhelming hardware. And BT try to make it out to be the best device in existence 😐

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[FrogFun]

Double nat has never been a great solution to be fair....seen many a case where it's caused issues (often for gaming)

[Keith_Beddoe]

Provided you give the second router a fixed WAN IP address, and place it in the DMZ zone of the home hub, then all incoming ports should be diverted to your second router. You should then be able to apply port forwarding rules on your secondary router, and they should pass through the home hub.

The home hub will allow one device to be put in the DMZ.

[FrogFun]

@licquorice 

Its a cheap and cheerful mass market device, suitable for 99.9% of customers

It's a sub-standard piece of hardware (or at least the firmware is by a long way). You say suitable for 99% of customers, I think you're putting a lot of customers down. There's a lot of people who want and expect more from their internet router, who have enough technical knowledge to get the most out of one and this BT router basically takes away any ability for a power user to get the most out of things. Even something simple like assignging DNS servers for DHCP, one of the most basic things on a router.

No, how would the SH2 in bridge mode give access to the IP layer for Digital Voice?

Why not the same way FVA worked? Or why not allow people to configure the SH2 as a phone receiver without needing to be connected to the ONT? Or why not just provide a standalone VoIP box that connects via WiFi or a LAN port? What happens if somebody wants a phone line provided by BT but then doesn't have BT for internet? So long we don't want your business?

Oh, so your parents wish to take advantage of BT WiFi but not reciprocate by providing it!!

Basically, yes? Out and about in towns, CBD's and commercial areas there's be hotspots anyway.
This is in the suburbs. Why would you need so many WiFi hotspots in the suburbs of a town? So any random can walk past and leech bandwidth away? YOU are paying for YOUR internet service, they aren't paying for your electricity, equipment, internet connection etc. What is the point of forcing onto HOME routers in the suburbs? Plus no matter what BT says there's always a security consideration.

Plus, as I've said. Router has switches to turn WiFi off. Router says WiFi is off.
WiFi isn't actually off? That is a con and a scam. If you deliberately turn something off it should be off and fully off.

Nothing preventing you using a third party router and third party VOIP system

There is when the customer....
a) already signed up with BT and has everything installed and set up and ported over to DV
b) wanted to stick to BT for the telephone service as they had done for 40 odd years (or more if you include pre-privatisation)


The entire digital voice setup/rollout/reliance on a sub-standard piece of hardware like the SH2 is utterly ridiculous as is the forced lock in to BT hardware that I thought we moved past in the 1980s.

[stereohaven]

I returned to BT Broadband last Friday after 18 months with Sky, if you think the BT router is locked down and lacking functionality you can tweak, you haven't seen anything yet! 🤣

But I consider myself 1 of the 99% and apart from offering a guest network SSID, the Smart Hub 2 I have received has everything that I need to be able to configure available and is providing a connection 20Mbps faster than I had before.

What I don't understand is why you are getting so wound up about something you can easily avoid?

There are so many ISPs you can choose from who use Openreach infrastructure that will happily let you use your own hardware and offer other VoIP based landline options, why don't use one of them and save all the stress?

BT are not going to change a mass market targeted product because you don't like it, so use your freedom to choose a supplier who will. Plenty of information here: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/top10.php 

A&A is a true niche ISP with exceptional feedback who will get as technical with you as you like, but you will pay more for that level of competence. The Smart Hub 2 is intended for people like me who tend to want to "set and forget" and want decent value.

[FrogFun]

@stereohaven simple reasons really. It's my parents phone/internet I sort out (but they still have some expectations), BT sport discount and the fact they've been with BT for 40+ years (including pre-privatisation)....

sometimes it isn't so easy for people to switch.

[FrogFun]

@Keith_Beddoe wouldn't that involve disabling firewall on the SH2, too? Which in itself is another security concern (even if another router is handling firewall duties for the home network)

[stereohaven]

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@FrogFunwrote:

@stereohaven simple reasons really. It's my parents phone/internet I sort out (but they still have some expectations), BT sport discount and the fact they've been with BT for 40+ years (including pre-privatisation)....

sometimes it isn't so easy for people to switch.

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Fair enough. 

No point worrying about the Smart Hub then, it is what it is if those are the parameters you need to work with. I find the Digital Voice works well, but then I don't ring anyone and no-one rings me! 😁