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Sage
Sage
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Message 21 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@onslow wrote:

Hi john46!

The big question is who's going to pay for all these new vectoring DSLAMs, John?!


I can give you a suggestion for that ,if you get elected.

 

100% tax on all bankers bonuses and use that cash!

chris6273
Recognised Expert
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Message 22 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@onslow wrote:
To vector-enable the Huawei DSLAMs, pretty much everything has to be swapped out for new -- all new linecards, new controller units, backplanes, and beefed-up power supply boards. That's a lot more than "just a software change".. It's basically a new DSLAM. The only thing that can stay in situ is the fan tray. The ECI DSLAMs are even worse. Thanks to ill-thought-out hardware limitations, ECI's M41 DSLAM, that the model BT installs across Britain, can never be truly vectoring-capable. Check-out the ECI website where they list the V41 DSLAM model as the only vectoring upgrade path for the M41.   In short, we're stuffed.

It's extremely vague on how much work needs doing on a Huawei MA5616 to get it Vector-Ready, I initially thought it was just a software change from what people have said before.

 

Even Huawei's website is vague on the topic.

 

Whatever the requirements, it will be interesting to see the cost of upgrading on if physical replacements are required 😛

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onslow
Contributor
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Message 23 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Let's clear something up.  There are three types of vectoring for DSL:   board-level vectoring; system-level vectoring; and node-level vectoring.  With the cost and complexity of each type increasing accordingly.

 

 

System-level vectoring with a Huawei MA5616 requires new linecards (VDMM),  a new controller unit (CCUE), a new backplane and a new, or at the very least beefed-up power board.    Really, by the time all that's been changed, it's easier to just replace the whole DSLAM. And that costs about £4,000 per DSLAM plus labour, etc.   That price is from a HK-based Huawei vendor, pretty much a box-shifter and it comes with no support. BT is possibly paying much more for the same kit, what with warranties, service agreements, training seminars, upgrade path guarantees, and whatnot.

 

The complexity of the vectoring problem is going to get worse because BT is now starting to cascade the DSLAMs; adding new DSLAMs in new cabinets when it runs out of ports on the existing DSLAMs.   That will require another vectoring solution altogether.  That's called node-level vectoring. It's where the vectoring software in each DSLAM work with each other; exchanging messages to fine-tune the modulation properties of the DSL signals on each subscriber line, to mitigate cross talk across them all.


As for the ECI M41s; they are at best half-baked. Heavily limited to board-level vectoring only; probably better understood as linecard-level vectoring. And even that's done poorly because of the badly-designed architecture to the ECIs.   Board-level vectoring would be a logistical nightmare, because of the complexity to the D-side to BT's network.  A bad choice if BT do go down that dead-end path to save cash.  It would require complete lift-and-shifts across all the line cards in every cabinet; coupled to complex (least-worst-option) decisions based on the D-side infrastructure.   The general idea is to re-locate all the disturbers from one binder so they are all served by one line card. In theory, the vectoring software could then adapt their DSL modulation properties on each board, to reduce cross-talk.   In the real-world that's not practical. There won't be an even distribution of subscriber lines in each binder cable.

Let's take Cabinet 1.   Let's say it has 200-pairs serving a small housing estate.  Area A of the estate is served by a 100-pair binder for which take-up of VDSL2 is 70%.   Whereas area B is also served by 100-pair binder but take-up is just 10%.   What do you do then?  How do you lift-and-shift with 64-port linecards in those circumstances? If BT plumps for board-level vectoring, it will always be a poor make-do-and-mend solution.

 

 

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chris6273
Recognised Expert
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Message 24 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@onslow wrote:

System-level vectoring with a Huawei MA5616 requires new linecards (VDMM),  a new controller unit (CCUE), a new backplane and a new, or at the very least beefed up power board.    Really, it's easier to replace the whole DSLAM. And that costs about £4,000 per DSLAM plus labour, etc.

 


Fair enough. And I'm guessing they would have to get specialist engineers out to do the job? From memory (most) cabinets are assembled with the DSLAM already installed when the cabinets are 'plonked' on their foundations so I'm guessing somewhere there are a team of trained engineers for this type of job?

Not just something a regular engineer can do?

 

To be honest £4,000 doesn't sound too bad compared to the initial hassle of digging the fibre.etc. If a cabinet has 100 lines that's £40 a line (Obviously not all have that).

 

But then again most of the mid-capacity cabinets are ECI (some 128 and all 256 line cabs) excluding the Huawei 288 line one.

 

Any idea what the cost of replacing/redeploying a new ECI DSLAM model would be?

 

 

Would be interesting if BTo would replace the DSLAM with an ECI or just replace with a Huawei. If the latter happens, are the cabinet chassis cross-compatible between DSLAMs? I've noticed they have different exterior designs.

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 25 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Not sure if this 30 Jan official announcment has already been posted.

 

http://home.bt.com/news/bt-life/bt-ceo-sets-out-ultrafast-broadband-vision-11363958493131

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 26 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

It says deployment of ultrafast speeds of up to 500Mbps will start in 2016/17
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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pooclah
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 27 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

It also says "subject to the pilots being successful."

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 28 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

It also says

 

"BT expects to offer initial speeds of a few hundred megabits per second to millions of homes and businesses by 2020. Speeds will then increase to around 500Mbps as further industry standards are secured and new kit is developed."

 

and

 

"It is also planning to develop a premium fibre broadband service for those residential and business customers who want even faster broadband, of up to 1Gbps."

 

Obviously this will all depend on the results from the G.Fast pilots starting in Summer 2015.

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onslow
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Message 29 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@umpire wrote:
 

"BT expects to offer initial speeds of a few hundred megabits per second to millions of homes and businesses by 2020. Speeds will then increase to around 500Mbps as further industry standards are secured and new kit is developed."

 

and

 

"It is also planning to develop a premium fibre broadband service for those residential and business customers who want even faster broadband, of up to 1Gbps."


 

Shame we're not in the USA where BT would have to meet Wall Street rules; qualifying such hopeless optimism with a Cautionary Note like this:

 


Cautionary Note Regarding Forward Looking Statements

 

Certain statements made in this press release constitute forward-looking statements. These statements include, among others, statements as to future economic performance and plans and objectives for future operations, products and services.

 

In some cases, you can identify forward-looking statements by terminology such as, "may", "should", "expects", "plans", "anticipates", "feel", "believes", "estimates", "predicts", "potential", "continue", "consider", "possibility", or the negative of these terms or other comparable terminology.

 

These forward-looking statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward looking statements.

 

You are urged to consider these factors carefully in evaluating such forward-looking statements and are cautioned not to place undue reliance on them. The forward-looking statements are qualified in their entirety by this cautionary statement."


 

Difficult decisions for would-be investors in the telecoms industry.  Do you sink more cash into BT,  the captain pugwash of the sector today?    Or do you spread the risk?  Perhaps entrusting a buck or two in SirRichardBranson and his VirginMediaGroup? Mindful that the beardie weirdy could blow the lot on another flying saucer.

 

 

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Sage
Sage
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Message 30 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Whatever the "Where or when" of G.Fast deployment it needs vectoring to be deployed first which is good news for everyone.

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