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-AndyH-
Expert
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Message 11 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Vectoring is essential for G.fast because of the higher frequencies used - cross talk would essentially be amplified. There is also an issue with the frequencies overlapping the lower end of the FM radio spectrum. G.fast is years away from being used - there is no need at present for anywhere near that kind of bandwidth on a consumer level.

 

In terms of vectoring for the current FTTC network, it requires some hardware to be installed in each cabinet which takes no more than 30 mins.

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pbwpu
Contributor
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Message 12 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

I was under the impression that to get the full benefits of vectoring you need either fttdp (data reporting back to the cabinet/exchange) or the user modem to also be vectoring compliant as only then can you get the maximally fine grain details about the line.
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pbwpu
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Message 13 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@GeekOfBroadband wrote:

And G. Fast is bringing the fibre all the way to the telegraph pole then using copper from the pole to your home (Correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Not really. G Fast is a transmission standard which unlike VDSL2 uses much higher frequencies to transmit its data (106/212 Mhz rather than 30/17Mhz typically). This gives much higher bandwidths but because higher frequencies are more sususcptiable to interfearance (attenuation increases with frequency) they must be run over much shorter distances or all the benefit is lost and indeed they can be slower than VDSL2 over all but the shortest distances. Fttdp/np is therefore a consequence of these restrictions not the technology itself.

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dfenceman
Expert
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Message 14 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

BT

 

BT is plotting a new broadband technology for the UK, with trials due to start within the year.

The ultrafast broadband is called G.fast, which is a technology that serves as an upgrade to existing DSL copper phone lines, promising speeds of up to 500Mbps. BT says it's expecting the new tech will be deployed to most of the UK within a decade.

That's quite a long time to wait, although BT will start testing G.fast this summer in roughly 4,000 homes and businesses in two locations -- Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire (can't wait Smiley LOLand Gosforth in Newcastle.

Speeds customers can expect to achieve using the new tech will depend on how close BT's G.fast network equipment is to their homes. Speeds are expected to hit a "few hundred megabits per second" by 2020, BT said in a press release, and will then increase to 500Mbps as new hardware is developed.

"We believe G.fast is the key to unlocking ultrafast speeds and we are prepared to upgrade large parts of our network should the pilots prove successful," BT boss Gavin Peterson said in a statement.

Best regards,
dfenceman
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DavidCo
Expert
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Message 15 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

This is all very well - but!

BT it seems cannot sort out the issues posted on this forum about Infinity 1, 2 & HH5 disconnects, the latter I still suffer.

Many people would be happy if they got what they pay for.

G.Fast, well that's a very nice idea, I wonder if it disconnects faster too?

 

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onslow
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Message 16 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG


@Checked2013 wrote:

@chris6273 wrote:

Vectoring on FTTC will likely still go ahead if that's what you mean - It's little more than a software change on the DSLAMs.


I think if it was only just a software change then it would have been implemented by now on FTTC. Do you have any info on this?

 

"Little more than a software change" ??!   With the same hopeless optimism, I'm just six numbers away from winning the lottery, and two fins and tail from being a fish!

To vector-enable the Huawei DSLAMs, pretty much everything has to be swapped out for new -- all new linecards, new controller units, backplanes, and beefed-up power supply boards. That's a lot more than "just a software change".. It's basically a new DSLAM. The only thing that can stay in situ is the fan tray. The ECI DSLAMs are even worse. Thanks to ill-thought-out hardware limitations, ECI's M41 DSLAM, that the model BT installs across Britain, can never be truly vectoring-capable. Check-out the ECI website where they list the V41 DSLAM model as the only vectoring upgrade path for the M41.   In short, we're stuffed.

You've also got to wonder where BT would get the cash to roll-out vectoring nationwide. It will cost billions and then some. That's cash it just doesn't have.

BlightyTelecom has gotten herself in another fine mess. With more regulatory troubles looming over the horizon that could cost it hard cash. Ofcom is just about to launch another probe into BT's (alleged) margin squeeze on competitors.  If Ofcom finds against BT that will mean even less money for vectoring rollout.

Elsewhere on the finance-front, BT is already overstretched. Agreeing last month to that eye-watering £12.5 billion buyout of mobile operator EE; just so it can play in the big-boys' league of "quad play" providers. How's it planning to pay for that colossal takeover, except by cutting back spending elsewhere?

And it gets worse. BT's pension fund is also at crisis point. The Financial Times reports today (Friday) that the deficit on BT's pension scheme has reached a staggering £7bn. That's nearly four years' worth of profits for the company.  BT predicts it will have to shore up the fund with massive cash injections until 2030, at the earliest. Beginning with an emergency injection of £1.5bn before April this year.  Poor Old Beattie really has gotten herself into a ploughman's pickle. Again, those pension obligations will dramatically eat into the cash available for our vectoring roll-out.

BT is saddled with the legacy of thousands of gold-plated pensions paid to many of its 300,000 members; retirees from the halcion days of the GPO.  Unfortunately, post-privatisation, the company's pension funds have been little short of squandered; with much of the employee contributions sunk into gilts and other low-yield government securities. Which is quite unusual.

Normally a company pension scheme invests chiefly in the equity of its own business, sometimes offering the business cheap credit too. This is seen as a vote of confidence in the company, as well as a thank you from former employees for many years of happy employment.   BT, however, has been ploughing its pension funds into stultifying government stock. Perhaps to please Ozzy Osborne at the Treasury, and his simpleton forebears.

We all want vectoring and we want it now. So maybe it's time to start thinking the unthinkable. Not wishing to being rude but all those BT pensioners are basically dead weight; yokes around the company's neck. Idling away their days in Wetherspoons or playing online bingo on their free BT Infinity 2 connections, at the expense of our vectoring plans.

If we're going to have vectoring soon, this just can't go on. And since we're all living longer, those BT pensioners could be hanging around for decades yet, cluttering up our GP surgeries and A&E departments (and Wetherspoons) and contributing nothing to our physical economy.

Good people, we must call time on this nonsense; and seize the bull by the horns. It might sound cruel, but needs must; this calls for a radical solution.

It's time we took the old bird, British Telecom, back under the protective wing of We the People. We must re-nationalise BT for the General Welfare of the Population. Clear out the City of London's canker from the BT boardroom; and embark on a huge Public Works programme to build a telecommunications network for the next century and beyond.

Forget vectoring; it's not even a halfway house. We must demand Fibre to every home in the Land. This will involve a National Credit programme to pay for it. No more borrowing funny-money from slithery slickers in the City. If we truly want our telecoms infrastructure to be the envy of the world, then the Government must create the funds to build it, in the form of Public Credit.

That's why I'm asking for your vote in the forthcoming general election -- to put the Great back into British Telecom. All of you should shortly be receiving my election manifesto in your email box (if not, please check your spam folder where it probably belongs, along with all the other manifestos!)

Cheers,

onslow

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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 17 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Time for your medication Onslow. 😊
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onslow
Contributor
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Message 18 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

 

Which bit of my manifesto needs tweaking?  Can I still rely on your vote, Licorice?!  You know it makes sense!

 

To be serious, a nationwide vectoring rollout programme ain't going to happen any time soon.

Not unless the DSLAM makers will give BT the upgraded hardware for free, or next to nothing.

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Distinguished Sage
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Message 19 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

a shame onslow did not read post 11 on this thread as it shows a a hardware change taking about 30mins
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onslow
Contributor
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Message 20 of 35

Re: BT Vectoring and G.Fast, OMG

Hi john46!

 

A 30-minute timeslot sounds more then enough for changing a DSLAM.

 

The procedure, afaicr:

 

one power cable, out

four telco-64 linecard plugs, out

two SMF uplink cables, out

one RS485 environmental monitoring cable, out

one PGND (ground) cable, out

four rack screws, out

one old DSLAM, out

 

Fitting the new vectoring DSLAM, as it says in every Haynes manual, is the reverse sequence to removal!

 

Tools needed:  cross-head screwdriver (medium)

Task Complexity:  1 out 10

 

With an ample 30 minutes to do the job, plenty time left over for a cuppa and a cig or two in the van; and perhaps even a cheeky game of Candy Crush Soda Saga  (just to check it's all working okay)!

 

The big question is who's going to pay for all these new vectoring DSLAMs, John?!

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