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Message 1 of 6

Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

Howdy all!

I've been looking at packages to replace my broadband with, and saw the full fibre options pop up in their shiny speedy glory. I run a family Plex server so a broadband upload that isn't measured in megabytes would be quite nice to say the least.

I got all the usual preamble about how they need to install 2 boxes etc, and the needs for permission. I'm a leaseholder in a flat with a management company, so I dropped them an email asking for what they need for the go-ahead for a fibre installation.

Not sure what I was expecting, but they sent me back a form with a £75 fee (naturally), asking for me to provide details for the installation consent, asking for the following information (copied from the form - don't think they're expecting all of these) in the "full proposals" segment:

  1. Detailed Plan / diagrams of the proposal – with measurements
  2. Confirmation of Building control application
  3. Photographs of the area in question
  4. 3. Planning application / planning consent if required
  5. 4. Any building control certificates
  6. 5. Valuations / surveys that have been carried out.

This all seems to be on the basis that I already know what the engineer will do. So my question is this - do others who've had to get freeholder permission just specify the high level details of what an engineer would do (the same info those FTTP help pages contain), or do you normally contact BT and get them to fill out this form on your behalf?

Another side question: I did some looking up on the availability checker, and discovered my downstairs flat neighbour has FTTP installed. There's a grey Openreach "Customer Access Point" on the outside flat wall in all its glory. If this is here, does that mean my FTTP installation could patch in to this? Thereby cutting out one of the two part installation process?

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Message 2 of 6

Re: Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

Ask your management company what century they think they are living in and how they expect to lease any properties in the future with that attitude. BT certainly won't complete the form.

The install will consist of a small grey box on the outside wall (the same as the other flat you mentioned) and an ONT (optical modem) on the inside. You cannot share the CSP with your neighbour, you will have a separate fibre.

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Message 3 of 6

Re: Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

Surely if one of the flats already has FTTP then Openreach already have wayleave for provision? The only way for the OP to find out is place an order.

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Message 4 of 6

Re: Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

If your individual flat/apartment has FTTP availability what does the survey note show on the wholesale checker , use the address option and post the results.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

A typical entry for a new build house ( fully  ducted ) shows

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.


Your address will differ , but providing this  information will be illustrative.

There will be a huge variety of possibilities with flats/apartment complexes, depending on the number of dwellings contained within the MDU ( multiple dwelling unit ) ranging from a couple of flats , to a high rise containing scores of units,  FTTP service normally mirrors the existing copper network,  but not always.

Larger  MDU’s  , ones that tend to have a single point of entry to a foyer, with lifts and or stairwells to higher floors and the individual units front doors , the existing copper network will have been provided when the building was constructed, so retro fitting FTTP will be very difficult, and tend to be excluded from the normal FTTP build , and dealt with separately .

In these cases all stakeholders ( leaseholders , landlords , building management etc ) are consulted before work is planned , and obviously if any party refuse or ask for payments , then the building is simply left out of any scheme.


If there is a neighbouring flat that already has a CSP fitted on an external wall , I would suggest they never contacted the building management, as you have done , but simply ordered service, the ISP and Openreach would proceed on the basis that the person ordering services has the necessary permission, obviously that CSP could have been provided on behalf of any of the ISPs that uses Openreach, not necessarily BT.


I suspect this neighbour ( and presumably yourself) are part of a smaller type MDU , so potentially, especially the ground floor units , could have individual ducted feeds , and those units on higher floors could  be served differently, potentially the higher floors ( especially if the MDU isn’t particularly high rise , ) could need permission from the ground floor units to run a cable over their property to reach the higher units.

Is the building only ground floor and first floor flats ( for example ) perhaps you can describe the type of building in these terms , and if any visible existing copper network exists , like blocks on walls with copper cables to individual units ( external DP’s ) 

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Message 5 of 6

Re: Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate the help on this!

 

I can't believe I didn't actually post the checker results - apologies for that. It showed as follows:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed alternate L2C solution required.
FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.
As a fibre priority exchange, FTTP has priority over other products if available at the address

For my neighbour, it shows:

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

SDU is strange - this is a flat block consisting of 6 flats (2x3 layout - I'm top floor).

The occupant of the the flat suspected to have FTTP is of the... "rebellious" kind, so to speak. So if OR just need a head-nod to proceed with works, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they did and just went ahead w/o mgmt approval. It did seem strange to me that a singular MDU would get a FTTP connection with no optional connection provided to the rest of the dwelling, but at that point I'm unsure how FTTP installation differs between single and multiple occupant dwellings.

Regarding pippincp's point on wayleave - wouldn't the management company have informed me if it was already in place? Then again as licquorice has alerted to, I am dealing with a rather stuck in the past management company. A very much "we won't do anything unless you wave money in our face" type deal, with eye-watering service charges.

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Message 6 of 6

Re: Freeholder Permission for FTTP installation

The survey states OH ( overhead feed ) so from a telegraph pole , alternative L2C ( lead to cash ) solution, so a single installer with standard ladder may not be able to complete the installation , so things like a scaffold tower may be required, or long ladders if the dropwire fixing were to be higher that the normal eves level , so a field visit before the contractual install visit is arranged to establish what will be needed ( and provided ) on or before the actual install date .
Obviously your neighbour already has FTTP ( you have seen the CSP ) hence the different note against their address , the ‘a new ONT may be ordered ‘ is if they want a second FTTP service.

Units within a small MDU that can be served externally, ( from a pole for example ) remove the complications of a retro fitted internally wired solution that would require the building owner / management agreement etc, so even if technically they are not a single dwelling unit , OR ( for their own purposes) can be reclassify as SDU , and even if the current copper service is not overhead.
obviously this is more common on small MDU , you would never have a tower block ( for example ) served overhead , a large house in an area served overhead, converted to ‘flats’ would still be served overhead
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