Power lines and phone lines

[36ULW]

That story about someone being 400m away wouldn’t apply to a normal Provide.

For a start when Connectorised Fibre is built a CBT must be built to within 120m of the Premise(s) it’s going to feed. 

Under exceptional circumstances they can build a CBT either 280 or 300m away. Although this is extremely rare, even for those who live in remote areas.

This is because the maximum length of a Connectorised Fibre Cable is 350m.

Therefore said person who lived 400m away was most likely never part of the PON that bordered their property.

Openreach would’ve had to extend the Network to bring a CBT closer to that particular property, this is where the excess construction costs would’ve come in. This is known as a, Nearby NAD. It’s something Openreach came up with to increase the THP Footprint on both Retro and Rural FTTP Build.

If say for example your line is fed from a Pole 120m away but from there to your house is an underground buried cable and Openreach put a CBT on that Pole and assigned your NAD Key to it then no matter what the circumstances are around why the original Copper was buried Direct in Ground would matter. Openreach would still dig and duct the 120m section from the Pole to your house with zero charge to yourself as you’re upgrading an existing service.

[iniltous]

What do you mean , this wouldn’t apply to a normal provider, that’s exactly what they ordered, the poster  is quite clear , they had FTTP availability ( they already have ADS/FTTC ) , the address a single dwelling , and is 400m along a private drive , the existing cooper pair is in part DIG , OR  have already stated it’s liable for excess construction charges , the poster has the choice , pay the ECC or don’t have FTTP.

[36ULW]

As per what I explained in my comment.

A Normal Provide in the sense their Property is within a Built and Commissioned PON, which will mean their NAD Key is associated with a CBT within that PON.

This other post you’re referring to where the Customer is over 400m from the CBT, if that’s the case then that customer wouldn’t be part of the PON that CBT is associated with because it far exceeds the 120m a CBT has to be built near a property it feeds.

As I said, Openreach do offer a service called Nearby NAD where if it’s possible and within cost to provide service to someone outside of that PON then they will in order to increase their FTTP footprint. This is where any excess construction costs are passed onto the CP/Customer if applicable.

If my NAD Key, aka my House is associated with a CBT 120m away and my existing copper service is all direct in ground all the way back to that CBT then Openreach would dig/duct to my property to provide service with no additional cost to me as it’s an Upgrade of a Service they’re already providing me.

[Tafia]

Update:

I am now told that Openreach want £3740 to bring fibre to my house with ducting. they say poles would be more expensive yet engineers have told me poles are much cheaper than ducting.

As mentioned, the Openreach broadband checker say my house is " full fibre ready". Looks as if that is not correct.

[iniltous]

As a rule of thumb poles are cheaper than duct , especially if they are to be sited on the land owned by the person ordering service ( no problem with permits, wayleave payment etc ) but especially with overhead power , there are restrictions which could make a pole route unviable, TBH , £3700 would be the charge for around around 6 poles that could span around 420m , and that’s pretty much in a straight line , if an unusual route needed to be taken to avoid conflict with the overhead power , then more that 6 poles could be needed and that could possibly cost more than underground.
TBH , if ( for arguments sake ) a £1500 charge would be ‘too much’ then the cost is irrelevant, if this is through your own land you could always mitigate the costs by excavating a trench yourself, OR supply the duct , preformed jointboxes ( 200m in a single duct span ) etc. and you install that , along with draw ropes and then OR complete at a much reduced cost.

TBH , if this were done by OR at no expense to you , given that a typical retail price ( maybe £30-£40 a month , 24 month term  ) the only guaranteed income to OR is 24*£20 ( £20 on the generous side of what the ISP pays Openreach ) , so £480 , no business in the world would voluntarily enter that arrangement 

[Tafia]

Thanks for this. The distance to the pole with the connection box is 125 mts according to OR and if they don't use the existing power poles they would need two poles  to reach the house. From what you say that should not be anywhere near £3740.

[iniltous]

As said the fact that you have been quoted for duct suggests that direct overhead isn’t possible, you were quoted for duct ,not overhead so yes £3000 + for 2 poles is too much , but that’s not was quoted and we can only assume that more than 2 poles would be needed if overhead were feasible , so I’m not saying the charge is excessive, a duct in soft unmade surfaces is around £30/m , plus other things like jointbox or boxes , extra cabling etc , so £3740 would likely work out to around 100m of excavation.

If poles were possible, they would be used cheaper and quicker for you and them , unless the cost was more than a ducted solution.

I would have hoped that on the survey ( the service delivery survey after you had ordered , not the ‘FND’ survey, the options would be discussed with you at the time .

[Tafia]

There is an 11000 V line crossing overhead the route but a pole either side of that with ducting underneath to avoid conflict with the 11Kv line would solve that. Could that  be done? OR are said to be looking at alternatives so if that is possible I would suggest it to  them. There is no 11Kv on the power poles feeding the house.

Thanks again for your response. Much appreciated

[mikemod]

My house is 400m on a private lane from the CBT so thought I wouldn't  have a chance  of getting FTTP without huge cost.

However after telling the OR survey guy I could dig my own trench up the side of the lane , they said that would be fine and they supplied the ducting and duct access chambers free of charge, placed every 150M

As was mentioned above the maximum length for the Connectorised Fibre Cable is 350m so what they did was add another CSP in the duct access chamber and joined the fibre to another section which ran to the CSP on the wall of my house where the duct came out.

So just cost me the hire of the digger for a couple of days and cold beer for my BIL who did the digging.

[iniltous]

I take it that you suspect that two poles are all that’s necessary, plus underground section is also needed as an Openreach overhead span cannot cross underneath HV power , and the total distance from the existing pole with the CBT  is 125m , and this is preferable ( cheaper ) than a full duct solution.

If this is close to what you think is possible , a back of the envelope calculation could be , two new poles ( assuming there is vehicle access to the location the poles would need to be provided for the PEU ,if not it’s more expensive manually provided poles that would be necessary) and an underground section of duct between the poles , so 2x poles ( £1500 ) and 50m duct in soft surface where it goes under the power , £1500 , so around £3000, a not dissimilar price , obviously from a resilient point of view the duct method is going to be better than any overhead or partial overhead solution.

 I would assume the surveyor considered all options, but AFAIK , they should be open to discussing the proposal, and as another poster ( and myself ) pointed out you can always undertake some work yourself that would reduce the cost , if you supplied the entire trench from as close to the CBT pole as possible to the house wall ,for example, the costs may possibly fall to be in the low hundreds of ££  , not thousands ££