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scointer
Recognised Expert
307 Views
Message 21 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

OK I am getting slightly confused. I definitely had it for my Apple TV4K BT Sport App but possibly not on my IPhone.

Are you saying when you clicked on it it showed as BT Sport 1 rather than BT Ultimate in the on screen graphic. BT Sport Ultimate should automatically match the highest output to what your device (and subscription) is capable of.

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4KTVFan
Contributor
266 Views
Message 22 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

So just to be clear, for me when I say the APP, I'm talking about BT Sports on my phone, and not any TV or TV box.

With my subscription the APP shows the Sports channels in HD as standard.

Before when BT showed a game in HDR it was featured, top left, and said something like "Watch in HDR"

It all worked fine, and very smoothly, credit to BT.

This time nothing... which given all the complaints, leads me to believe there was no HDR stream for mobiles.

BUT, here's the real issue, no one knows!

The real issue here is BT's total lack of communication around the matter, if there was no HDR stream, fine, just say so and we can all draw a line under the matter and move on, and talk about the future, and when there will be HDR streams, but right now, myself, and many other BT subscribers are wasting hours of our time trying to working what the issue is.

Maybe BT are not supporting my phone this time round, fine, but please BT, just say, post a link to a list of compatible devices, otherwise how do we know?

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051
Aspiring Contributor
258 Views
Message 23 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

Precisely this. 

According to their post on here, it was available to quite a lot of people... just none of those people have commented about it and everybody who has commented online couldn’t access it...

The only issue here is that had nobody commented at all, there would have been no official wording from BT and it would have been swept away. 

They should absolutely not have announced anything until they were sure the product was fit for purpose. Not only this but they have seemingly purposefully kept the fact of it being HD SDR hidden, leaving many people under the illusion that it would be UHD HDR, when that’s not the case. 

At least Sky just haven’t said a word on their own lack of HDR, unlike BT who have claimed to be live as of yesterday... I feel a bit cheated! 

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Bumtious
Aspiring Contributor
244 Views
Message 24 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

HDR on BT is a shambles. And take this as constructive but also exasperated criticism.

I am a professional TV and audio calibrator and have domestic and commercial clients so used to setting up grading monitors.

To all readers, if you want to see how HDR should look, go look at the HDR loop of the FA cup final on the BBC iplayer. That is 4K HDR HLG and looks superb.

What we seem to be getting from BT is far from clear and is very confused, even BT's staff dont have a clue what's really going on from the rediculous conversation I tried to have with BT's customer service yesterday at half time. Maybe EE customers got it?

There was no HDR via Apple TV for the community shield. I called several of my customers and not a single one got an HDR stream.

Even if it was available its 1080 HD (and confuses people who see the letters HDR)

UHD, HDR, HD, HLG.... what does it all really mean.

The instructions to set the Apple TV to HDR 1080 50Hz forces the Apple Tv to show a faux interpolated (guessed) HDR. Reason for doing this, the BT app does NOT do frame rate matching or dynamic range matching.

This forces your TV into a HDR mode, but what you are seeing is the Apple TV converting a 1080 SDR (standard picture) and creating a guessed HDR result, which is and looks rubbish.

Didn't work on iphoneX or ipad pro either

I have a BT 4K box and that was 4K UHD and Atmos (4k and Atmos only available via this platform) and the quality there seems to have dropped from last season. (image was dark and grass was smearing as there seemed to be more compression)

I also have your superfibre package and have no problems getting full 4K HLG from iplayer or HDR and Dolby Vison from Netflix, Amazon or Itunes movies. (All hard wired)

Now as I understand it the game was indeed being caputred in 4K HDR as you now have the technical ability to have a single workflow/production crew to capture in 4K HDR and send out in downscaled HD to customers who do not have HDR devices yet, eg Sky customers.

The 4K UHD channel has been rebranded Ultimate, and could be HDR or UHD or 1080 HDR we have no idea now and the explanation to any of the above or the pricing models is as clear as mud.

Right now BT seems to be economical with the facts/truth.

You are implying things but not really being clear. Here's an example:

"Weather was hot and sunny today 23 degrees."

The full information would state:

"Weather was hot and sunny today 23 degrees for about 10 minutes, the rest of the day was was 9 degrees with torrential rain and gale force winds."

We launched or HDR service yesterday.

We launched or HDR service yesterday as marketed, but it will be several weeks before all platforms are ready including our own box.

Neither is untrue. But a completely different. The only way anyone can make a informed decision is to have clear information. Not confussing and econimical marketing spiel.

What is needed is some transparent clarity and explanations not some economical corporate explanations.

I belive BT did launch it but was not ready on most platforms or you were plagued with technical issues.

From what I can see, the reality is that while you can indeed capture it, as of now you have no way to broadcast it properly. Your 4K boxes can't do HDR (new boxes on the way that will but not ready yet). Sky Q not ready yet. Apple TV, not frame rate or dynamic range adaptable.

The Champions League final in HDR was unwatchable, it was dire quality. Again the BBC iplayer FA cup final loop is what HDR should look like. (As was centre court from Wimbledon)

Bottom line is we have no idea what were able to get or how to get it because in reality it is a shambles and is as clear as mud and no one at BT seems to have an idea of what's going on. Just seems to be lame damage limitation from what I can see.

What's really going on please.

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4KTVFan
Contributor
238 Views
Message 25 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

*** MODS ****

Come on, please step in and just put the record straight.

BT is losing the faith of it's paying customers.

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scointer
Recognised Expert
237 Views
Message 26 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

Funny that because there is a big thread on digital spy saying the iPlayer 4K hdr of Wimbledon looked rubbish.

 

https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2341920/wimbledon-in-uhd-and-hdr-this-year/p1

 

Everyones a critic lol

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Bumtious
Aspiring Contributor
210 Views
Message 27 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

Re scointer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2019-06-fa-cup-bbc-ultra-hd

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2019-05-av1-codec-streaming-processing-hevc-vvc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-07-hdr-uhd-television-picture-quality-settings-guide

There's much more to this, mainly down to the simple fact that HDR for live broadcasts is really hard to do, and many earlier HDR TV's are not upto the job. Yes I agree that some, and this was a few, camera shots did not look great and really highlights how difficult this is to capture live especially as outdoor light varies. This changes the colour temperature balance of the cameras and as a consquence the image went hot (red). They are still learning hence the BBC in trail and testing

Overall it looked great on a correctly set up new Sony Oled that I have. Read the 3rd blog.

This highlights even more that BT are simply not ready for prober HDR. This is marketing and trying to be first with a full service.

But they don't seem to be.

What we've got from BTon different platorms is this:

BT Humax box: 4KUHD in SDR with Dolby Atmos sound. No HDR

Sky Q: 1080 SDR. No HDR

Virgin V6 box: 4K UHD in SDR. No Dolby Atmos, No HDR (Virgin box is HLG and HDR10 compatable)

Apple 4K TV: 1080 HDR alegedly, No Dolby Atmos, no auto frame rate are aato dynamic range detection (apple box is Atmos compatable)

You know what, read this page, this was simply not delivered yesterday, this is about what BT are selling, not anyone else.

The BBC HDR FA cup loop is what we should at the very least accept, and some explanation of what the real picture is wpuld be appreciated.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/64361/~/hdr-%28high-dynamic-range%29

 

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scointer
Recognised Expert
194 Views
Message 28 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

@Bumtious 

And if you see the reply to your same comment on the other thread you will see that -

Quality - I'm not as technical as you to be sure (!) but we surveyed several thousand customers after the UCL final last year and 76% said that HDR was a superior picture to what they had before. So BBC iPlayer may well be different but our customers on the whole enjoy HDR on our platforms. I'm sorry if you found it 'unwatchable' and 'dire quality' but the vast majority of our customers didn't share that same experience.

 

Therefore BT are going for what the majority (not the elite) want or perceive. I agree BT are jumping in without perfection but if the majority of the customers like it then better to have it now and work on improving than hold off forever. People on here are complaining about not getting HDR therefore you can see how many actually do want it..Yes there were issues with the Charity Shield HDR delivery but if that is better next weekend then we are getting there and no reason to pull it till a year down the line when they can deliver UHD/HDR to the majority of devices. They will release each device as it becomes ready, a lot of the confusion is people not understanding there is a difference between getting HDR and getting UHD, the two are not linked and HD can be delivered with HDR for an improvement also. I admit BT's marketing of the 'ultimate' channel which is trying to deliver the best possible experience depending on subscription and device leaves a lot of people scratching their head as to what they will actually get on each device but I am sure this will get straightened out.

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4KTVFan
Contributor
191 Views
Message 29 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

Guys, may I step in here, I don't know you both but I have seen your postings.

You both make good points, but the range of platforms and software versions available at the moment means we ALL are in a complex situation.

HDR is clearly a complex matter, and I feel it's going to take a couple more years to settle down.

A few on us on here really care about making HDR happen, and I can see from your posts that both of you, like me want an 4K and HDR future! 🙂

 

 

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Ajread29
Aspiring Contributor
185 Views
Message 30 of 102

Re: Community Shield - no HDR?

What annoys me is that it was definitely marketed by BT to make it seem like on Sunday from my Xbox one x or my Samsung tv I could open the by sport app and watch the match in 4K HDR. I can’t be the only one who thought this?