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robotman1
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Message 41 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

@Mallett94   Wow! Just imagine what BT Sport would look like in Dolby Vision πŸ˜€ Now that would be something else!!!

Part of my reasoning for the change from Roku to Apple was access to the BT apps. I certainly haven't regretted the move, especially with the ATV being much more pleasing on the eye, is much faster, and it produces a better overall picture quality across all the apps I have installed. Even NowTV sport looks that bit better on the ATV4K.

I'm with you on HD HDR sports, at the moment I'm refusing to manually change each time there's a HDR broadcast on BT Sport, seeing as how everything else switches automatically. Maybe that's something BT will work on πŸ˜€ That said, and @stereohaven has said it above, the picture quality across the BT Sport app on the ATV4K is quite something else and is setting a standard for others (yes, I'm talking to you you NowTV) to attain to.

Mallett94
Aspiring Expert
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Message 42 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

@robotman1 @stereohaven 

Morning all! or should I say afternoon... haha.

I do find it quite strange that you feel the PQ from the 1080p50fps stream through the ATV4K box is actually better (?!?!?!) than the native 4K 50fps PQ from the 4K Youview box.

Could I ask which channel you are viewing on the BT Sport App on the ATV when doing the comparison? E.g. is it  BT Sport 1 HD on the ATV compared to BT Sport Ultimate on the 4K Youview box?

When you are viewing BT Sport 1 HD on the ATV and you press the info button on your actual TV remote, does it say 1920x1080p as the source input or does it say 3840x2160p?

Is the BT Sport Ultimate channel always available to choose on the ATV4K? If you do choose the BT Sport Ultimate channel on the ATV whilst its showing a HDR stream e.g. Arsenal last night, because you have the ATV hardset to 4K SDR, yet the BT Sport Ultimate image on this occasion is HDR, does this not cause an incorrect image to be displayed? Or does the BT Sport app recognise that HDR isn't 'turned on' and just defaults to the SDR stream?

When you are viewing BT Sport Ultimate on the ATV (not a HDR stream) and you press the info button on your actual TV remote, does it say 1920x1080p as the source input or does it say 3840x2160p?

Cheers!

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robotman1
Contributor
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Message 43 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

Definitely afternoon @Mallett94  😁

I'm finding the ATV4K stream to be a bit brighter and sharper than the BT box output, and that's with both being calibrated individually. I had the ATV4K port redone yesterday so as to have an accurate picture from the ATV.

I would be comparing like for like, eg. BT Sport 1HD against BT Sport 1HD. It's important to remember that with the T4000 set to output UHD in the settings that HD channels don't look as good as they did on the T2100. It's been well documented the only way to get the same HD quality is to manually change between 1080p/4K each time you change source on the T4000. That I believe is what's making the difference between HD on the app compared to the BT box. The same applies to the BT TV app and the HD entertainment channels when comparing between app and box.

The other night it was Ultimate vs Ultimate (but that was before the recalibration). I'll need to compare the Ultimates again over the weekend if I have time.

From waht I can see the Ultimate channel is only available on the app when there is HDR material to broadcast. When I watched the Spurs game on Tuesday night the app kept the output on SDR until I manually selected HD HDR from the ATV settings. The BT app as yet can't auto adjust like most other apps do.

I'm not at home at the moment to check what resolution appears onscreen, and to be honest I can't remember if I even checked it Tuesday night. This old memory ain't what it used to be πŸ˜†

Really enjoying the conversation by the way.

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Mallett94
Aspiring Expert
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Message 44 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

@robotman1 I find talking about this stuff very interesting, I'm always trying to ensure I'm getting the best quality possible from my setup.

I can completely buy in to the BT Sport 1 HD on ATV4K being better than 1 HD through the YV box (this is also the case with casting the BT Sport App to a Gen 3 Chomecast or an Ultra). This is because, (disclaimer so I only have to say it once hahaha) to the best of my knowledge, the streams to the BT Sport App are true 1080 progressive 50fps. Via the YV box, all HD subscription channels are delivered at 1080 interlaced 25fps (obviously the refresh rate is 50hz to match the 25fps). So on the YV box the stream is 1080 but 50 half fields per second, which when deinterlaced effectively resolves to 25 full frames per second (so in other words 1080i50 from YV versus 1080/50p via the app). Your point about the HD channels not looking as good when upscaled by the YV box is 100% true, however I would argue that to get the best HD channel quality (for BT Sport) you would be best setting the output to 1080i as opposed to 1080p, so that the native stream is output by the box (i.e. your tv does all the deinterlacing and upscaling).

So if as you say, the Ultimate channel is only available when a HDR event is being broadcast, surely the way to 'correctly' view the BT Sport Ultimate channel on the ATV4K would be to manually change the ATV settings to 1080 HDR 50hz? Otherwise if you don't do that, the ATV is outputting a HDR signal but as SDR and the TV will stay in SDR mode and that would be weird? Like the ATV is 'downconverting' the HDR to SDR?

As we discussed earlier, the BT Sport Ultimate channel on ATV4K doesn't (yet) do 4K SDR, so it would make sense that the Ultimate channel is only available when a HDR broadcast is showing.

I am really interested in what the TV shows as the input resolution when you are viewing both the BT Sport HD channels and the Ultimate channel through the App. As is widely known, the  BT Sport App on ATV4K doesn't work with the match frame rate/dynamic range functions, therefore I would infer this would mean auto resolution switching also wouldn't work for the BT Sport app. This would mean that if you leave your ATV settings on 4K SDR 50hz and the auto match functions aren't working, then your ATV is upscaling the 1080p streams to 4K before outputting, and that is why I'm interested in what the resolution input info says on the TV.

 

*EDIT* - I've been doing a bit more googling and found a couple of references which explicitly say that yes the ATV4K matches Dynamic Range and Frame rate, but that it does NOT match resolution.  See the following articles:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/12/05/new-apple-tvos-update-fixes-the-apple-tv-4ks-bigg...

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-tv-4k-no-longer-forces-you-to-watch-everything-in-hdr/

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comments/a4c7r9/i_really_wish_there_was_a_resolution_matching/

Perhaps in the latest tvOS they have included a match resolution option, however I can't find anything saying there is. I'm looking forward to hearing back from you regards what the tv input info says about the resolution.

I hope you can get some time this weekend to try some of this stuff out! πŸ˜„

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robotman1
Contributor
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Message 45 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

@Mallett94  My missus says I have an unhealthy obsession with my tv but I only want the best experience from it, heck, it cost enough 😁

Anyway, to the nitty gritty, and an answer FINALLY for you re resolution and the ATV4K (you've been very patient). I've had a quick look before popping out again and can confirm your suspicions, the ATV4K (latest version, os13) does NOT auto match resolution. Frame rate and dynamic range definitely yes, but not resolution.

I put on Doc Martin on the ITV Hub+ on the ATV4K with my current settings, and up pops 3840x2160 50fps on the telly. Changed the setting on the box to 1080p/50Hz to satisfy my curiosity and it properly displayed 1920x1080 50fps on the tv.

Therefore, the box is upscaling content when set to 4K SDR.

Re: the HD channels on BT TV. Yes 1080i would be best but I'm not a fan of having to manually change resolution each time I want to use the Ultimate channel, like I said earlier, the lazy man's approach 😐

I understand the reason for the Ultimate channel effectively being a pop up on the app as it's only for HDR content, and I suppose seeing it appear when it does means you can be assured it's broadcasting a HDR stream, albeit only a HD HDR stream, which yes you have to select manually on the ATV because of the current limitations of the BT Sport app.

As is widely known, the BT Sport App on ATV4K doesn't work with the match frame rate/dynamic range functions, therefore I would infer this would mean auto resolution switching also wouldn't work for the BT Sport app. This would mean that if you leave your ATV settings on 4K SDR 50hz and the auto match functions aren't working, then your ATV is upscaling the 1080p streams to 4K before outputting

I would agree 100% with you on that πŸ‘

Mallett94
Aspiring Expert
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Message 46 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

@robotman1 Thanks for confirming my suspicions! I was fairly sure the ATV4K didn't match resolutions, but that's something the Roku Stick + does do  right?

Oh I completely agree about leaving the 4K YV box on 4K output for all. My parents did the same before their 4K box broke.

I guess the next test would be what looks better, the ATV outputting the native  1080p BT Sport HD stream and your very good tv upscaling to 4K, or leaving your ATV at 4K and letting it do the upscaling. That will be an interesting one! My guess would be the TV would do the better job at upscaling, however I''ll let you be the judge of that haha!

So in future, out of curiosity, whenever you see an HDR stream available in the ATV BT Sport app, will you be manually changing the ATV settings to 1080p HDR10 in order the watch the BT Sport Ultimate stream for the ATV4K app in the correct way?

If possible I would also be interested in your opinion between the correctly viewed 1080pHDR via ATV compared the 4K SDR from the 4K YV box if possible?

Sorry for all the questions, but a part of me is tempted to maybe pick up an ATV4K, pretty much just to be able to access the HD HDR and then hopefully coming soon the 4K SDR stream!

As an FYI, I think if you set the ATV manually to 4K HDR10, and then try to watch either the  BT Sport ultimate channel (when its available) or it might be any of the BT Sport HD channels, that because its a true 50fps source, and then the ATV is upscaling it to 4K, and then trying to output 4K 50fps as HDR, the picture becomes quite juddery/stuttery because this is where the hardware limitation of the box comes into effect.

After all of this, is it possible that actually the best way to consume BT Sport would still be the Ultimate channel through the YV box which is legit 4K 50fps SDR (that is until 4K 50fps HDR is available through the app on a device)?

I hope I've been somewhat helpful and everyone is a step closer to getting the optimum settings!

400
Contributor
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Message 47 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

Personally I am not faffing around with the BT app. I don't want 1080p hdr. At the moment it is handy for a quick look see if the main BT box is off. The way this was released, I don't think they thought it out and went for firsts.

I am sat back now waiting for them to fix it, turn out a new BT TV box or scrub the HDR/4k on the app (if the 4k ever appears via the app). BT needs one box. At the monet HDR via app, atmos via BT box, and 4k via box. No watching HDR with atmos as yet.

 

Personally waiting to see what is going to come out before I leave. It may impact my decision.

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Mallett94
Aspiring Expert
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Message 48 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

The latest rumours are that a new 4K HDR Atmos Youview box will probably be released at some point next year.

In the meantime you are stuck with either 4K SDR through the 4K TV box/Virgin V6 box, or 1080p HDR through Samsung smart TV BT Sport app/Apple TV 4K BT Sport app. The 4K SDR stream should be coming to either of those or both at some point I believe.
If 1080pHDR ever makes it to the Xbone/PS4 app we will have to wait and see.
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robotman1
Contributor
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Message 49 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

Hopefully get the tests done some time over the weekend as the family are here so it's going to be busy 😁

From my limited memory I think the Roku Stick+ also only matched range and frame rate, but I stand willing to be corrected.

I probably will revert to manually changing the resolution for HD HDR BT Sport as it's a quick change to make from within the ATV4K menu. I'll continue to pray to the tv gods for full throttle UHD HDR to arrive πŸ˜‚

No problem with the questions, and, if I can find time this weekend I'll most definitely do a comparison test. By the way, go ahead and pick up an Apple TV 4K, you know you want to 😈

TALON1973
Contributor
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Message 50 of 86

Re: HDR BT Sport App

This is why I think the β€œmax 4K” package is total bs . And why I got Β£20 a month knocked off after I complained.

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