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cleo165
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 1 of 18

BT Call charges are not as they seem! Don't believe me? Then read on...

BT Call charges not as they seem! Don't believe me? Then read on...

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cleo165
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 2 of 18

BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....

My First bill arrived and i studied the charges for my unanswered calls to mobile. There were two problems i encountered.

Firstly, I was not under the impression that a call is connected once it is ringing, I thought it was to be answered first, like when you phone from a public phone box and if the call is unanswered theres no charge. It seems that a connection fee is applied along with the first call charge when the dialled number rings! I cannot find any info on this and BT staff seem to inadvertantly misunderstand what i am saying. 

However, The next problem i had was to identify what my actual charges were.

According to BT, calls to mobile phones are charged at 18.0p per minute with a 23.0p connection charge.  Frontend Charges.PNG

This is confirmed in their terms and conditions and Tariff guide.

Chharge Terms.PNG

The confusion is where the data is, not with my account. I was billed 42p within the first minute of every call to mobile.

My charges.PNG

Now my maths skills are stronger than average so that is a whole penny extra i am charged per call.

Now, BTs explanation is to confuse matters, by outlining the way charges are calculated:Call Rates Application.PNG

 and the calculation method:CALL CHARGE ROUNDING.PNG

 Base call charge, rounded UP to the nearest whole pence, then VAT is applied which allows a second rounding up to a whole pence. This is common calculation and is accepted, BUT the terms say that the charges are 18.0p (note the .0) and 23.0p. So this tells me two things:

(a) the charges are to the nearest whole pence, and

(b) these charges are inclusive of VAT

The result, I have been ripped off by a whole penny per call according to the difference in the data

BT consultants breakdown of costs go alot further than just the 18p and 23p we see, but they dont tell us...

Unfortunately, you have been caught out! Lets see the data change please.

 

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asherUK
Beginner
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Message 3 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....

20% VAT of 23 is 4.6

23 - 4.6 is 19.4

19.4 - Setup Fee

20% VAT of 18 is 3.6

18 - 3.6 = 15.4

15 .4 - PPM

19.4 + 15.4 = 34.8

20% of 34.8 = 6.96

34.8 + 6.96 =  41.76

Rounded up is equal to 42 Pence.

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Message 4 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....


@asherUKwrote:

20% VAT of 23 is 4.6

23 - 4.6 is 19.4

19.4 - Setup Fee

20% VAT of 18 is 3.6

18 - 3.6 = 15.4

15 .4 - PPM

19.4 + 15.4 = 34.8

20% of 34.8 = 6.96

34.8 + 6.96 =  41.76

Rounded up is equal to 42 Pence.


@asherUK

Unfortunately you cannot find the VAT by simply saying 20% of 23 because you will be adding 20% to the included VAT. The calculation is 23 / 1.20 = 19.17. The VAT is 3.83 = 20% of 19.17 or 23 - 3.83.

So to complete the calculation 18 / 1.2 = 15

19.17 + 15 = 34.17 + 20% of 34.17 = 41.00

So I have to agree with @cleo165. Where has the extra 1p come from.

Distinguished Expert
Distinguished Expert
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Message 5 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....


@VeteranISPUser wrote:

@asherUKwrote:

20% VAT of 23 is 4.6

23 - 4.6 is 19.4

19.4 - Setup Fee

20% VAT of 18 is 3.6

18 - 3.6 = 15.4

15 .4 - PPM

19.4 + 15.4 = 34.8

20% of 34.8 = 6.96

34.8 + 6.96 =  41.76

Rounded up is equal to 42 Pence.


@asherUK

Unfortunately you cannot find the VAT by simply saying 20% of 23 because you will be adding 20% to the included VAT. The calculation is 23 / 1.20 = 19.17. The VAT is 3.83 = 20% of 19.17 or 23 - 3.83. 


Interesting point.

Adding up the base plus vat gives 41.004p. (?).

So the 004 p is rounded up to the next penny.

 

 

 

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Message 6 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....


@Ribblelancswrote:

@VeteranISPUserwrote:

@asherUKwrote:

20% VAT of 23 is 4.6

23 - 4.6 is 19.4

19.4 - Setup Fee

20% VAT of 18 is 3.6

18 - 3.6 = 15.4

15 .4 - PPM

19.4 + 15.4 = 34.8

20% of 34.8 = 6.96

34.8 + 6.96 =  41.76

Rounded up is equal to 42 Pence.


@asherUK

Unfortunately you cannot find the VAT by simply saying 20% of 23 because you will be adding 20% to the included VAT. The calculation is 23 / 1.20 = 19.17. The VAT is 3.83 = 20% of 19.17 or 23 - 3.83. 


Interesting point.

Adding up the base plus vat gives 41.004p. (?).

So the 004 p is rounded up to the next penny.

  


So it looks like even 0.001p would be rounded up to 1p Smiley Happy

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asherUK
Beginner
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Message 7 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....

19.17 + 15 = 34.17 + 20% of 34.17 = 41.00

I do apologize you are correct, going off the statement the 34.17 is rounded up to 35 then the VAT is added to equal 42.

20% of 35 is 7.

"The call charge plus the call set-up fee (excl VAT) is rounded up to the next whole penny. We add VAT (rounded up to the next whole penny) to give the total call cost."

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Message 8 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....


@asherUKwrote:

19.17 + 15 = 34.17 + 20% of 34.17 = 41.00

I do apologize you are correct, going off the statement the 34.17 is rounded up to 35 then the VAT is added to equal 42.

20% of 35 is 7.

"The call charge plus the call set-up fee (excl VAT) is rounded up to the next whole penny. We add VAT (rounded up to the next whole penny) to give the total call cost."


Yes, I agree that follows the rule so 42p is correct. Now think about all of those calls made where the extra 0.01 to 0.99p is added, millions of pounds of extra profit ...

asherUK
Beginner
610 Views
Message 9 of 18

Re: BT Charges not as they seem, Don't believe me? Read on....

On the flip side to that, imagine still using tariff based calling in the modern day, so many unlimited minute calling plans out there for under £10 a month, or even just use your home wifi for free world wide calling, even with video!

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cleo165
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 10 of 18

Re: BT Call charges are not as they seem! Don't believe me? Then read on...

It's the data I have an issue with, it states to consumers that the charges are 18.0p and 23.0p and these amounts are 'inclusive of VAT'
If there is to be another rounding up after the charges then the terms should clearly outline this rather than using a single decimal place to show what seems a whole number. Otherwise a calculation would have returned 19p or 24p in the terms.

BT have rewarded me for my findings, only 25 pound but I am happy I got their attention.
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