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Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

 


Titanic wrote:

DS wrote:

 

The reply at the time was-

"No, WiFi offload from mobile operators is not permitted via the Home Hub"

 



As already mentioned anyone can get  a Fon or Openzone login  ID and therefore will be able to access the internet via your homehub. I think what is meant by WiFi offload is the ability to transfer a mobile phone conversation via the internet as per the Vodafone Sure Signal, which is not available via the Hub. 


 

Hi Titanic and thanks for the reply.

 

I didn't think it meant phone conversations but I thought wifi offload meant Mobile Phone operators could 'shift' the data from their network (3G) onto the wifi network (ie internet browsing).

 

 

 

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Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

 


DS wrote:

 


DS wrote:

Having recently had confirmation that the BTHH transmits the Openzone SSID, I have just read a post regarding non BT customers using an iPhone to connect to Openzone. I asked a question regarding if BT are planning to use my BTHH as a wireless access point for the mobile phone industry (remote a... and the answer at the time was no.

 

Having just looked at a mobile phone providers website it appears that they can indeed connect to BT Openzone.

 

Therefore just for my own piece of mind - Can non BT customers connect to the BT residential HH or can they only connect to commercial areas (ie a cafe)?

 

Thanks



DS wrote:
I know the mods are very busy with other customers 'issues' and having to devote time and effort regarding the Adam n Jane saga but is there any chance one of you could answer the question raised by myself in post 1 or point me in the right direction to obtain the answer?

 

 

 

Many thanks and keep up the good work!!:smileywink:

 

 

 

edit. I forgot to write that I am now aware that non BT Customers can log in to BT Fon or BT Openzone by borrowing or in some cases by passing on a BT Customers primary email account and password details (Parent gives details to son/daughter whom have flown the nest (and are supplied by other BB suppliers) and son/daughter passes it on to friends). So my original question still stands apart from this method.

 


hi ho hi ho it's off to the CEO I go:smileysad:

 

 

Or could a mod kindly look into this for me please?

 

 

 


edit to provide a bit more info

 

 

This all started out with 1 simple question
Why does the BTHH need to send out the BT Openzone signal?

The reason for asking this was because I could only find information regarding the BT Openzone SSID which transmits from the BT Business hub/Business locations and could not find information as to why it does on the BTHH/residential locations. IMHO this was wrong. During all this my BTHHv2 was the only one in my location. When I opted out of BT Fon, BT Openzone also stopped transmitting (obviously).

The BT response at the time was that the Hub wouldn't be sending out a BT Openzone SSID, only a BT Fon SSID (if I was opted in). Also I was advised that some devices pick up the BT Fon SSID as the BT Openzone SSID which is what might be causing my confusion. It would however still be a BT Fon SSID and BT Business customers can get BT Openzone as they are a business but this is not applicable to residential customers (BT Business customers would get special equipment for this which is not available on the Home Hub).

I replied with all honesty that all of my BTHHv2's supplied by BT emit the BT Fon and BT Openzone signals as separate signals. This was one of the reasons why I opted out in the first place (as I was slightly concerned) and the reason for asking about BT Openzone on the forums. I mentioned that a software download called inSSIDer also found both signals, each with its own mac address (Fon and Openzone macs are not far off my unique
mac address).

BT replied to say that if you're seeing a BT Openzone signal on your wireless device then it's coming from elsewhere as your Hub is not broadcasting the BT Openzone signal. I was told that the BT Openzone map can have out of date info which is possibly why this info isn't shown. Also, if I'd ever connected to a BT Openzone
hotspot e.g. at an airport it's likely this will be saved in the Wireless Networks list (usually wireless laptops save this info), though it would obviously not be broadcasting this signal. The last statement was to reiterate Home Hubs do not broadcast BT Openzone hotspot signals.

My laptop has never left my property and being as I live in a small town, No businesses transmit the BT Openzone signal (near me anyway). The closet BT Openzone spot is roughly 6 miles away. Also if I activate 'Radar' (Toshiba's own software) then it finds what I posted on the link below. http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/Could-this-be-a-reason-why-wifi-connectivity-is-poor-on-the-BT...
(The blue text is exactly what I see BUT I've removed the references - hence x,y, z and note how close the mac addresses are).
On the link, Radar detects my unique HH SSID, The BT Fon SSID and the BT Openzone SSID??
You'll notice that although I had manually set the band to b/g, BT Fon and BT Openzone still transmit on band n?? - (The laptop is band n but works on b/g).

No other BT hubs in close proximity transmit any signal that I can detect (even tried with third party downloadable wifi detection software).

Eventually and very gratefully I received some info. When you are opted into BT Fon your hub will transmit both a BTFon SSID and a BT Openzone SSID. This is why
you are able to connect to Openzone from your home as it is picking up the Openzone signal from your hub.

Because I couldn't find any documentation anywhere on the Internet which states that a BT residential customer using a BT residential hub should be sending out the BT Openzone signal and that I thought BT Openzone was only for Cafes (http://www.btopenzone.com/help/common-questions/index.jsp#general_2), I
asked if there was any info available.

The info provided previously was incorrect.
A member of BT confirmed that my hub will transmit the Openzone SSID once you have opted in to BT FON.
(links provided)

http://www.btopenzone.com/help/about-bt-fon.jsp
BT FON is an initiative between BT and FON that aims to give all its members access to wireless broadband wherever they are in the world. This is possible because all BT Total Broadband customers who've opted in agree to securely share, with other members who are in range of their signal, a portion of their Wi-Fi bandwidth through a separate channel on their Hub. Using your BT Openzone account, you can enjoy wireless Internet access at hundreds of thousands of BT FON locations in the UK and the Republic of Ireland."

This works in the same way as you are able to access BT Openzone Hotspots when out and about for free using your unlimited free wifi minutes, because you have opted into BT FON. All BT FON members can access both FON Hotspots and Openzone Hotspots. BT Openzone customers can connect to BT FON Hotspots.

A member of BT also found some info in the BT Fon terms and conditions, please see below,

https://www.bt.com/static/wa/wifi/pages/info.html
2) Wi-Fi access outside of the home is only available if you are part of the BT FON Wi-Fi Community. Opting in means that, when in range of another member’s signal, you will be able to securely access the Internet using a portion of their Wi-Fi bandwidth. Other BT FON Wi-Fi Community members will also be able to securely access the Internet using a portion of the bandwidth available from your BT Home Hub when they are in range (of the signal).

3) Once opted-in you will also get access to the Internet when you are in a BT Openzone or in range of a FON access point outside of the UK"

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11006/c/346,1238,2689/kw/can%20openzone%20customer%20...
BT Openzone customers can get wireless broadband access on the BT FON network.

BT Total Broadband customers who join BT FON can also access BT Openzone hotspots in the UK and Ireland."

In relation to your connection not showing on the Openzone map I can explain. Your connection is already showing on the BT Fon map to show there is a Fon Hotspot. The Openzone map will only show the commercially available hotspots like your Cafe's, Airports and hotels. As a Fon member you have agreed to share a portion of your bandwidth therefore it will only be Home hub users that have opted into Fon that will transmit the Openzone SSID.

Can a Mod please answer the following and please correct me if I'm wrong but:
Shouldn't the BT Openzone site state that BT Residential HH also transmits the BT Openzone SSID because it doesn't?

The BTHH should only need to transmit the BT Fon SSID? (The business hub only AFAIK transmits the Openzone SSID).
The reason - isn't it all a bit 'misleading'?

(repeat question - sorry) Can non BT customers connect to the BT residential HH or can they only connect to commercial areas (ie a cafe)?

 

Thank you

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Contributor
Luggworm
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎29-01-2010

Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

Am I the only one who fails to see the issue here?

 

If you opt in to BTFon your Homehub will advertise either the BTOpenzone SSID (v1,v1.5) or BTOpenzone and BTFon SSID (V2) that always has been the case. Anyone who has a login to Openzone either through being an opted in BT Total Broadband customer or who has purchased Openzone minutes can access through a BTOpenzone SSID. Also anyone who is a Fonero can access through a BTOpenzone SSID due to the reciprocal agreeement with Fon.

If you don't like the fact that people can access Openzone through your hub then you can opt out and reset your hub - you obviously lose the ability to connect to Openzone hotspots yourself.

The process and system is well documented and as far as I know there have been no reported incidents of an Openzone connected user gaining access to the private LAN side of the Hub. And a user who is connected to the Openzone SSID only uses bandwidth if it is available, if the LAN user is maxing their connection then there is no bandwidth available to Openzone.

 

Wifi offload from mobile operators is different and doesn't happen anymore - BTFusion used to use wifi offload with their handsets but that is long gone. If someone has a mobile phone with wifi and they have access to an Openzone login then they can login with their phone and surf but they will not be able to make mobile phone calls using wifi. If they have an application such as Sipdroid or Skype on their phone then they may be able to make calls using their SIP provider but that is no different to accessing those services through a laptop.

Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

Hi Luggworm and thanks for the contribution.:smileyhappy:

 

 


Luggworm wrote:

Am I the only one who fails to see the issue here?


I must be me. Am I the only one who see's the issue here? (If one exists).

 

 


If you opt in to BTFon your Homehub will advertise either the BTOpenzone SSID (v1,v1.5) or BTOpenzone and BTFon SSID (V2) that always has been the case.


 

This was the initial BT response on the 06/07/2010 - "The Hub wouldn't be sending out an Openzone signal, only a BT Fon SSID (if you are opted in)" also "Some devices pick up BT Fon as Openzone which is what's maybe causing the confusion here, but it would still be a BT Fon signal. BT Business customers can get BT Openzone as they are a business but this is not applicable to residential customers (BT Business customers would get special equipment for this which is not available on the Home Hub)".

 

(my bold).

 


 Anyone who has a login to Openzone either through being an opted in BT Total Broadband customer or who has purchased Openzone minutes can access through a BTOpenzone SSID. Also anyone who is a Fonero can access through a BTOpenzone SSID due to the reciprocal agreeement with Fon.

 

So you're saying anyone that is not a BTBB customer can purchase an Openzone voucher and can use my residential hub instead of a business location ("such as cafés, hotels, pubs, stations and airports"). The BT Openzone site does not mention the use of residential hubs - that I can find. A BTTB customer can use the Fon SSID. Fonero is different to Openzone as this is a share basis.

 

The quoted info (above) was then corrected on the 13/07/2010 to state that the residential hub will transmit both SSIDs and my unique SSID. The Openzone site however still doesn't mention the home hub as an Openzone wifi location on the site.

 

 


If you don't like the fact that people can access Openzone through your hub then you can opt out and reset your hub - you obviously lose the ability to connect to Openzone hotspots yourself.


 

I have been opted in and out several times now, so I know what I can do and what effect this has on my ability to use Fon.

 

 


The process and system is well documented and as far as I know there have been no reported incidents of an Openzone connected user gaining access to the private LAN side of the Hub. And a user who is connected to the Openzone SSID only uses bandwidth if it is available, if the LAN user is maxing their connection then there is no bandwidth available to Openzone.


 

I'm also aware that of the safety features in place to prevent anyone from gaining access to my hub via Fon or Openzone. I've already tried non technical ways to see if it's possible. I doubt it can be done.

 

 


Wifi offload from mobile operators is different and doesn't happen anymore - BTFusion used to use wifi offload with their handsets but that is long gone. If someone has a mobile phone with wifi and they have access to an Openzone login then they can login with their phone and surf but they will not be able to make mobile phone calls using wifi. If they have an application such as Sipdroid or Skype on their phone then they may be able to make calls using their SIP provider but that is no different to accessing those services through a laptop.


 

On the subject of wifi offload. BT have already advised that this is not permitted. They could do with removing the BT fusion mobile section from the hub manager though as it's now redundant.

95i810324C8911B053F

 

 

I believe that mobile phone users (using certain types of phone) can download an application or alter the phones settings so it connects with their BT VOIP service thus allowing them to make cheap or indeed free calls from their mobile from anywhere in the world. But that's a different ball game.

 

At the end of the day, BT need to change the wording on the Openzone site so BT customers know that by opting into Fon (or being automatically opted in since March 2009) that its not only BT customers that can connect and use the separate part of their hub.

Vodafone for example - http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=templateB... can connect if Openzone access is included in their vodafone price plan. They may assume it's only an Openzone location (such as cafés, hotels, pubs, stations and airports).
Can they connect to my hub? I guess so based on the information you provided and what BT recently provided.

Finally I can if I so wish adapt my hub so that only my unique SSID is transmitted even though I'm opted into Fon/Openzone. I won't do that because IMHO it wouldn't be fair.

 

 

 

 

I await input from BT on this.

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Contributor
Luggworm
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎29-01-2010

Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

 


DS wrote:

Hi Luggworm and thanks for the contribution.:smileyhappy:

 

No Problem:smileyhappy:

 

 

DS wrote:

This was the initial BT response on the 06/07/2010 - "The Hub wouldn't be sending out an Openzone signal, only a BT Fon SSID (if you are opted in)" also "Some devices pick up BT Fon as Openzone which is what's maybe causing the confusion here, but it would still be a BT Fon signal. BT Business customers can get BT Openzone as they are a business but this is not applicable to residential customers (BT Business customers would get special equipment for this which is not available on the Home Hub)".

 

(my bold).

 

Hmmm, Looks like they are using SSID and signal interchangably and casuing the confusion, the HH transmits an BTOpenzone SSID however when you connect it is a BTFon hotspot and the landing page is different to a 'cafe/shop style' landing page.

 

 

DS wrote:

So you're saying anyone that is not a BTBB customer can purchase an Openzone voucher and can use my residential hub instead of a business location ("such as cafés, hotels, pubs, stations and airports"). The BT Openzone site does not mention the use of residential hubs - that I can find. A BTTB customer can use the Fon SSID. Fonero is different to Openzone as this is a share basis.

 

Yes, If you connect to a HH Openzone SSID (or BTFon SSID) you have to select whether you are a total broadband customer, Fon or Openzone user. There is also a link on there to buy Openzone minutes.

 

 

 

I believe that mobile phone users (using certain types of phone) can download an application or alter the phones settings so it connects with their BT VOIP service thus allowing them to make cheap or indeed free calls from their mobile from anywhere in the world. But that's a different ball game.

 

Yep, I'll be using this in France in a couple of weeks time!

 

 

DS wrote:

At the end of the day, BT need to change the wording on the Openzone site so BT customers know that by opting into Fon (or being automatically opted in since March 2009) that its not only BT customers that can connect and use the separate part of their hub.

Vodafone for example - http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=templateB... can connect if Openzone access is included in their vodafone price plan. They may assume it's only an Openzone location (such as cafés, hotels, pubs, stations and airports).
Can they connect to my hub? I guess so based on the information you provided and what BT recently provided.

No they can't according to this page they can only use Premium (cafe/shop style) Openzone hotspots. Only BT Total Broadband, Fonero or BT Openzone customers can access the hub.

Finally I can if I so wish adapt my hub so that only my unique SSID is transmitted even though I'm opted into Fon/Openzone. I won't do that because IMHO it wouldn't be fair.

 

 

 

 

I await input from BT on this.


 

Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

 


Luggworm wrote:snip

No Problem:smileyhappy:

 

snipped

 

Hmmm, Looks like they are using SSID and signal interchangably and casuing the confusion, the HH transmits an BTOpenzone SSID however when you connect it is a BTFon hotspot and the landing page is different to a 'cafe/shop style' landing page.

 

snipped

 

No they can't according to this page they can only use Premium (cafe/shop style) Openzone hotspots. Only BT Total Broadband, Fonero or BT Openzone customers can access the hub.


 

Hi Luggworm and thanks for the reply:smileyhappy:

 

"Looks like they are using SSID and signal interchangably" - ? (a little help on this)

How does the landing page differ?

 

And a BTHH isn't a BT Openzone premium Wi-Fi hotspot? - Is there different types?

eg.

Cafe = Openzone premium hotspot

BTHH = Openzone standard hotspot

 

From home I've witnessed Fon

96iA14695886E4DAB13

 

and Openzone

97i76BCCE49AB2914AB

 

Are these the landing pages when out and about?

Thanks in advance.

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Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

99iEB90885C2C1AEACA

 

Which 3 Mobile Network Operators (MNOs)?

I thought Wifi offload was not permitted as it appears that my residential HH is a public Openzone Hotspot.

Can a Mod pass this thread and my details on to Ian's office at the next available opportunity

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Distinguished Guru
DS
Posts: 7,684
Registered: ‎27-01-2010
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Re: BT Openzone and Wifi offload from mobile operators?

So that I don't repeat post

 

http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-Out-About/Why-does-the-BTHH-transmit-the-Openzone-signal/m-p/37318#M22...

 

Thanks to all for their help and advice

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