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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
156 Views
Message 11 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

As a responsible company BT should not and most likely do not knowingly "divert" genuine emails as spam but given the amount of spam/phishing emails with spoofed email addresses purporting to be from genuine companies and organisations I am not surprised that some genuine emails will be caught and also some spam/phishing emails will get through.

Out of interest could you point us to the regulations that state BT or any email supplier has  "NO RIGHT TO DIVERT GENUINE COMMUNICATIONS FROM SENDERS LIKE HMRC INTO SPAM WITHOUT THE CUSTOMER'S PERMISSION."

or infact any regulations for email suppliers other than those regulating sending marketing emails or GDPR regulation regarding the security and storage along with use of customers email addresses and details.

 

 

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faultyemailSPAMfilte
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 12 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

Yes blocking individual emails from HMRC containing security unlock codes is clearly wrong.  The SPAM filtering diverted 75 emails directly to me into SPAM over one week despite the majority of them sent from respectable companies that I have financial accounts with. 

As to your strange comment about 'regulations'  we all have a human right not to have communications interfered with by third parties (BT), especially when the communications contain personal data that should be protected. I am not aware of any 'regulation' that requires an ISP to block communication unless the recipient asks for it or it is harmful.  It would be interesting to test this in court. 

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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 13 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous


@faultyemailSPAMfilte wrote:

 

As to your strange comment about 'regulations'  we all have a human right not to have communications interfered with by third parties (BT), especially when the communications contain personal data that should be protected. I am not aware of any 'regulation' that requires an ISP to block communication unless the recipient asks for it or it is harmful.  It would be interesting to test this in court. 


It is not a "strange comment" . You stated that BT had no right to do what they have apparently done which would infer to me that they must have broken some regulation. As far as I am aware there is nothing in the Human Rights charter regarding emails, they are also as far as I am ware not covered by Ofcom except the sending of marketing emails, the security is covered under GDPR but you have not indicated that the security was breached in any way so I was asking you a genuine question.

I have no idea if there is a regulation that requires an email provider, to block communication unless the recipient asks for it or if it harmful but I will look forward to the result if you pursue this through the courts.

EDIT:

I should have added that BT do say in their Terms and Conditions that you agreed to when you signed up for BT Broadband

"We scan your emails only to detect spam and malware (software designed to disrupt or damage a
computer system, such as a computer virus), and to enable improved product features (such as
applications to handle large files)."

https://www.bt.com/assets/pdf/BT_Mail_13_Jan_17.pdf

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faultyemailSPAMfilte
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 14 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

I don't mind that they scan my emails to detect (software designed to disrupt or damage a
computer system, such as a computer virus), but they are wrong to divert genuine emails into SPAM when they are not SPAM. or can be described as harmful and when the customer tells them that and asks them to stop doing it.  Hiding behind that phrase doesn't cut it.   

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FrustratedCustomer68
Aspiring Expert
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Message 15 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

I'm rather late to this party I'm afraid, but I have a cast iron alibi: the e-mails notifying me that someone had posted to the now quite old thread that I started were sent to my spam folder!

I very much agree with the sentiment that BT's failure to operate automated spam filtering successfully, while also failing to provide its long-suffering customers with a means of turning this off when using POP3, amounts to it providing very poor customer service indeed.

And while the much-vaunted migration from BT Yahoo! to BT Mail was indeed halted some years ago I believe that there have been recent stirrings in this area, which might explain the current shambled. See for example:

https://community.bt.com/t5/Email/Am-I-on-the-new-BT-Mail-yet/td-p/1965662 and

https://community.bt.com/t5/Email/BT-Yahoo-Migration-Issues/td-p/1971953

BT really should at least give the impression that it is a competent company, and that it is at least trying to get a grip. If it really has to fiddle 'under the hood' then it should warn customers that its testing regime is poor and that that should expect problems with a service that is superficially the same.

BT Yahoo! did once allow users to turn off spam filtering, but then stopped the functionality working without changing the user interface. I complained on this forum and wrote to their then Chief Executive but didn't get anywhere. Users were however evebtually forced to accept a new user interface that no longer allowed the turning off of the spam filter.

It seems reasonable to suppose that it is cost-effective for BT and its partners to use a single application to perform (poorly implemented) spam filtering, along with surveillance filtering, whether this is for the intelligence community or simply to feed into big data applications that will enable micro-targetted advertising. The net effect of the poor spam filtering is however a very poor user experience.

If spam filtering worked reliably there might be a case for implementing irrespective of user preference, because the AI that is almost certainly used in the application would then have more data from which to learn. But it doesn't!

Oh, and please would any respondents refrain from referring to the provision of e-mail using @btinternet.com addresses as a value-added service? The implication is that because it isn't explicitly paid for it need not work, and this is an argument that I cannot accept.

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faultyemailSPAMfilte
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 16 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

Yes, more and more people are now discovering that BT starting SPAM filtering of genuine emails despite no problems previously.  I have raised formal complaints and encouraged other organisations (like .gov.uk) to take up issue with BT.  

I have had responses from BT and one representative admitted that they know they have a problem and are exploring how to allow customers to stop it. I think that there may be help in the future as more people start to suffer.  The claims that BT is not re-introducing BT Webmail is wrong, although they may well now have suspended the activity of converting customers. Mine started at the end of 2019, after two decades of freedom.

I have a few observations to support the complaints in the above posts - apart from the fact that the filter does not work properly anyway:

1. The email service from BT is not free - it is paid for as part of a package when contracting with BT for telecoms services. Other telecom companies also include this service as part of their contract. 

2. The communications that BT are filtering out are not the property of BT, they are sent by other parties and are communications sent to and belonging to the recipient. (see my example of a bit of fun below).

3. There are no threats arising from SPAM.  The threats are from Spoof and phishing and these can easily be identified and marked as such warning the customers.  It is the customers decision whether or not to stop receiving spam from any given sender and it is usually quite easy - just look at the bottom of the message and click on unsubscribe. (This is why I was not receiving any SPAM before and so the BT filter decided to divert half of my genuine emails. )

4. Filtering SPAM does not reduce internet or system traffic - the emails are still sent but just put into a separate folder called SPAM.

5. The problem with IMAP and internet accessed BT Webmail is that your data is held on the internet.  If you are concerned about big brother watching you or a hack into BT servers then you should not be forced to leave your data property on the internet.  For national security purposes the material can all be filtered and recorded without diverting it to a separate SPAM folder. (There is an easy fix to stop SPAM going anywhere except the Inbox, so I know that BT can solve it. )

Here is the example with Royal Mail

You discover that not all of your hard copy letters are arriving in your letterbox. You contact Royal Mail and they say "Yes we decided that you don't want to read all of your letters so we took some out and put them in your bin at the side of your house.  If you want to read them you can take them out of the bin and look at them"
You say but how do you know what I don't want to receive?.
Royal Mail answer "We don't know, we just decide independently and without any input from you.  We know that we are getting it wrong and we don't care" 

You say - please stop putting any of my letters in the bin at the side of my house.  Royal Mail answer "NO". 

I think that they would loose a court judgement on not delivering someone's personal data. 

There is a workaround for POP3 users if you think really hard and work it out.  I'm not making it public because BT needs to stop their improper service and fix it for all. 

 

 

  

 

Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 17 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous


@faultyemailSPAMfilte wrote:

There is a workaround for POP3 users if you think really hard and work it out.  I'm not making it public because BT needs to stop their improper service and fix it for all. 

 


Sigh, you keep saying this but there isn't. Your analogy works for mail that is marked as spam and delivered to the spam box but it fails (and so will your so-called workaround) with spam that is not delivered at all which is about 99% of it.

To use your analogy, the mail is still sitting in the sorting office and thus unless you have the keys thereof it will remain there!!

faultyemailSPAMfilte
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 18 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

I do have to laugh - you seem to have a problem because you don't know how to stop spam going into the spam folder. 

That is all you seem to be worked up about - not knowing how to do it.  There really is a workaround and all of my email goes into the inbox, and is all immediately downloaded to a POP3 account.  

I won't bother to respond to any more of your posts claiming that there is no workaround.  The real topic is for BT to stop filtering spam if customers don't want it. 

I notice that your earlier posts are deleted. 

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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 19 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous

You are totally missing the point, it is quite easy to ensure that mail intended for the spam box is diverted to the inbox but that is only a tiny proportion of the spam that BT delete. It is spam that never gets anywhere near your spam box at all that I am talking about and which you seem to not understand happens.

Which posts would they be, none of my posts have been deleted.

Distinguished Guru
20 Views
Message 20 of 20

Re: BT Yahoo! E-Mail: Spam Filters Being Over-Zealous


@faultyemailSPAMfiltewrote:

I won't bother to respond to any more of your posts claiming that there is no workaround.  The real topic is for BT to stop filtering spam if customers don't want it. 

I notice that your earlier posts are deleted. 


As licquorice says, BT must delete a vast amount before it reaches Inboxes or spam folders. Though spam has actually been decreasing for at least the last few years as a percentage of emails sent worldwide. Indeed my own set of email addresses used to get umpteen spam emails per day, but over the past few years - they get virtually none at all.

Either my addresses are deemed not worth sending to, or the system is blocking and silently deleting them - probably based on a variety of methods including IP address filtering, known spam bot senders and lots of other stuff.

Some of your earlier points are not actually valid. BT drop a lot of spam, and if they didn't, their servers would simply buckle under the amount of storage space needed. Before "unlimited" mailboxes, that really did cause an issue in the past as emails sent to full mailboxes was dropped and deleted before getting anywhere near the recipient.

In your case, there does seem like something is wrong by putting a lot of your emails into the spam filters (assuming you've not set any personal filters to do something ...), which does make you wonder if it affects many more users.

Email can never be a guaranteed medium (like post).

By the way, what posts were deleted?

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