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Aspiring Contributor
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Message 21 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

I find you lot really amusing, I'm not complaining about POP3 - I can read all my emails without the changes.  The problem exists with Webmail not POP3.

I am actually complaining about a genuine fault that BT has. Here's an analogy in the hope that you see the point

Imagine that you suspect that you are not receiving all of your hard copy letters in you post box. You contact Royal Mail

Royal Mail: "Yes we decided to tale out some of your letters that we don't think you want to read and we put them in you dustbin around the side of your house.  If you want to read them you can take them out of your dustbin"

You: "But how do you know what I don't want to receive?"

Royal Mail: "You don't have a choice. We decide what we want to put in your dustbin independently and without any input from you, including any new senders that you don't know you are going to receive letters from. And actually we realise that we are sometimes wrong but we don't care"

You: "Stop putting any more of my letters in the dustbin around the side of my House."

Royal Mail: "NO"

I think that Royal Mail would loose the court judgement. 

I realise that you are either BT employees or used to be or you are BT sympathisers so you must stop trying to find explanations that mitigate this fault.   Give yourself a minute to be reasonable and imagine you were designing the Webmail UI.  Surely the sensible approach would have been to let users drag unwanted mail into a SPAM folder and then continue automatically to put any more of that senders mail into the SPAM folder for that user.  Here's the important point SPAM is not harmful email it is not malware/virus etc. that way you can be sure that genuine emails are improperly designated as SPAM by BT - that's the real fault.  The clue is in the ID faultyemailSPAMfilte

Please stay on the real point. 

 

 

 

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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
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Message 22 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

I was happily reading your post right up until you started to make it personal with your last paragraph. I will now happily leave you to it.

 

 

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 23 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

In effect pop3, imap and webmail are all the same if you only look at the inbox. I know you know that IMAP can see folders on the server that pop3 cannot.

So the problem is with pop3 as the spam/bulk folder is not visible, only IMAP and webmail have that facility.

The fact that you have not seen spam (whether real or otherwise) appearing in your spam folder for decades is either lucky or you have a fairly complex email address. Not everyone receives spam. Indeed I've not seen spam in a few of my accounts for many years. Some of them never, and others did - but BT (or Yahoo) spam filters have improved. Some of my accounts are never used, so that does explain a lot.

It also depends on any contacts being slack with their own trojan/virus/malware security possibly compromising other email addresses.

The spam engines can easily get overloaded, and perform badly or not cope - possibly leading to more false positives or "normal" spam getting through to Inbox or spam folder. Gmail is not infallible and can put genuine items into the spam folder.

It can easily be that the anti-spam engines are sometimes very bad at noticing real emails to spam ones - after all, it's machines that do it based on all sorts of algorithms (AI will be involved somewhere). It does get stuff wrong - and can cause issues as you've seen.

I agree that the spam filters are not 100% accurate, they never will be. But are they specifically faulty? I don't believe so - not least because each person will see things different. In your case you've suddenly seen items go into the spam folder, that doesn't mean a generic fault, just an unfortunate issue with a particular email(s) to a particular account. There will be others who may see a similar issue, but with the millions and millions of accounts, that is bound to happen.

Much like scam telephone calls, not every gets them, but naturally sometimes they simply start to receive them not having received any before.

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Aspiring Contributor
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Message 24 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

Hello Andy

I'm trying to understand your explanation and I'm not trying to be rude to you - you are trying to be helpful and explain that despite the SPAM filter being 'not 100% accurate' you don't believe they are at fault.  I am enjoying hearing your views.

But just imagine a world where the customer was able to decide what is SPAM for them - as far as BT it would be 100% accurate and there would not be a problem with a faultyemailSPAMfilter.  Whoever originally decided to try and help deal with SPAM made a big mistake in the concept, and it could be fixed fairly easily with a new Webmal UI.  

You analogy with phone calls ? with BT you simply dial 1572 and you block any further calls from the number just called - 100% accurate for that user.  But there may well be some users that really want to receive a call that helps them insulate their house or buy some new double glazing - (OK it is certainly not me, but the point is right).  In particular they certainly don't want any blocked calls calls from their car company telling them that their dangerous car needs to be modified for safety reasons, or from their bank with a transaction approval code.  That is the sort of emails I had diverted without my knowledge. 

By the way BT did tell me that they had moved me to BTmail last December and that is when the faulty SPAM filter started - 75 genuine emails in one week.   In addition they have people dealing with customers who have been migrated and are having problems. Their filter has a fault. It is probably related to the protocol on the Webmail UI, and I know that it can be changed - BT need to do it.  

If you think about it it's not even a problem with the number of emails being sent in the world because they still end up being transmitted to your email application folders whether it's Webmail or others.  

It is not a problem for me, as I have a workaround that stops it but my complaint is that BT needs to make the change because they are at fault.

On a different but related point in the background is my concern that people need to be able to remove any of their data from the internet and should not be forced to leave it there.  I don't use any form of cloud storage, or facebook/twitter etc. because I am protecting myself.  IMAP, Webmail etc are forcing you to use the internet - did you  wonder who is watching you? 

 

 

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Distinguished Sage
Distinguished Sage
198 Views
Message 25 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)


@faultyemailSPAMfilte wrote:

 

It is not a problem for me, as I have a workaround that stops it but my complaint is that BT needs to make the change because they are at fault.

 


You do not have a workaround. 

Please stop trolling.

You clearly have no idea of the complex nature of spam filtering and that it is a completely dynamic process which very occasionally results in the baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

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Distinguished Guru
189 Views
Message 26 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

Any generic corporate spam filter is not going to be 100% accurate, so I deem this not to be a fault but simply it can't be totally correct. Each person sees things differently, and potentially for some users, the system might completely fall down for whatever reason. I know it's semantics, but if the whole system was faulty, there would be uproar.

Without knowing how the transfer to BTMail from BTYahoo was done - it's inherently possible this move has caused a user specific fault showing up as wrong spam filtering. There doesn't appear to have been many other reports of user's being transferred to BTMail to guage any possible issue that's happened.

I assume you simply got an email from BT saying they were moving the account to BTMail and just gave some information rather than you having to do anything. Another poster said that they were told what servers to use, perhaps because they were using the wrong ones.

My analogy with scam calls wasn't to do with blocking them, it was about starting to receive them - much like you've just started to see entries in the spam folder not having seen any before. Though your spam were all genuine emails, which isn't really the same!

You say people are dealing with migrated users having problems ... can you point where that came from? I'd be interested to read more (I'm on BTYahoo still, though don't use my emails for communications as such).

BT say in the email T&Cs that the spam folder can be checked for ones that aren't spam. Whether that's good or bad isn't for me to say as people have their own opinion on this.

With regard to your last paragraph, no-one is really forcing anyone to use the internet!

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Aspiring Contributor
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Message 27 of 27

Re: Need Spam Filter help (Cant send to BTinternet.com)

Hello Andy

I'll try to answer your question.  Initially when it started in December 2019 I called to complain and I was transferred to a very helpful English accent person who explained that I was lucky since I had been transferred to a team that was focused on helping people who have been transferred.  He was surprised to find that he could not correct the problem and he escalated it somewhere as a complaint.  I have then been called 5 times by people with Indian accents who did not read the complaint details first so were very frustrating going through the complete ( and then correct) understanding of the problem and they then decided that the fault should be escalated.  Actually I believe that these people in India (they told me that) were just trying to clear up outstanding issues and I was convinced that they were doing it to score good performance points etc. They usually ended up apologising that the problem was above them.  I sent a further communication insisting that I not be called again unless the person understood the problem and had something to offer. 

I have separately raised an escalation and added a complaint about their complaint handling system.  

I agree with you that there may be something extra wacky with their faulty email SPAM filter because I rarely had received SPAM in any of my email and with the new UI it may amusing to think that when the filter started to act on my inbox it put a load of genuine emails into SPAM to 'balance it up the SPAM a little'  

What I meant about the internet is that if you are forced to use Webmail or IMAP you are leaving your data on the internet.  I agree that you are not forced just 'encouraged'. 

And for the benefit of Mr 'Distinguished Sage' I'm not trying to annoy you and I actually really do have a workaround.  Perhaps if he thought really hard about it he may realise the solution - I'm sure he'd kick himself if he knew how to do it. 

Andy, if you fall into the same difficulty and want to avoid this problem, and could convince me that you would never tell anyone else, then I might explain it.

Cheers  

 

 

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