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Community Manager
Community Manager
1,724 Views
Message 11 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder

Hi @nicos


@nicos wrote:

Maybe the BT admin can comment on whether there is a system issue or a change in filtering that could explain this.   As you say it is a bit disconcerting.


I have spoken with our email team and they have confirmed that they have delivered a new anti-spam engine to improve performance.

 

Looks like you and others here are seeing the benefit of this improvement Smiley Wink

 

Cheers

Sean

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archiethomas
Aspiring Contributor
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Message 12 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder

Hi Sean, I don't know how you can say that your email team has delivered a new anti-spam engine to "improve performance" and "you and others are seeing the benefit of this improvement".  What is the improvement and the benefit when Spam filtering has stopped completely????????

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old_email
Aspiring Expert
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Message 13 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@archiethomas wrote:

Hi Sean, I don't know how you can say that your email team has delivered a new anti-spam engine to "improve performance" and "you and others are seeing the benefit of this improvement".  What is the improvement and the benefit when Spam filtering has stopped completely????????


Spam filtering hasn't stopped it's just got to the point when they are so pretentious as to think they've got it 100% right and there are no false positives or false rejections.  My highly trained spam marking system had 2% error, evenly split between false positives and false negatives and I'll wager it is better than BT/Yahoo's and I get to see it.

 

But as always when a system goes backward with its improvements it's always for the benefits of the customer, even if emails disappear down a big black hole.

 

Did I say pretentious?  Can't remember.  See the other thread to which there has been no response.

 

I get forwarded email from a gmail a/c to BT/Yahoo with a delivery rejection advice because it breaches (the new) BT/Yahoo spam policies.  There is nothing in the BT/Yahoo system that warns me of this rejection.  Pretentious is the description I have for them.

 

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 14 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@SeanD wrote:

Hi @nicos


@nicos wrote:

Maybe the BT admin can comment on whether there is a system issue or a change in filtering that could explain this.   As you say it is a bit disconcerting.


I have spoken with our email team and they have confirmed that they have delivered a new anti-spam engine to improve performance.

 

Looks like you and others here are seeing the benefit of this improvement Smiley Wink

 

Cheers

Sean


How will this affect those businesses and others that have reported their emails to btinternet email addresses were getting blocked due to the anti-spam engines?

 

 

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 15 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@archiethomas wrote:

Hi Sean, I don't know how you can say that your email team has delivered a new anti-spam engine to "improve performance" and "you and others are seeing the benefit of this improvement".  What is the improvement and the benefit when Spam filtering has stopped completely????????


Hi.

 

I agree with your comments and questions.

 

Chances are the "older" anti-spam engines were using something like blocklists from spamhaus or similar, plus some form of (poorly) managed configuration which has been shown to block various business emails to btinternet addresses "only" - some reported in these forums.

So what has changed?

 

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old_email
Aspiring Expert
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Message 16 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@Andy_N wrote:

 

How will this affect those businesses and others that have reported their emails to btinternet email addresses were getting blocked due to the anti-spam engines?

 


The senders if they are lucky will get the message:

 

"The response was:

554 Message rejected on 2018/01/15 10:01:36 GMT, policy (3.2.2.1) – Your message looks like SPAM or has been reported as SPAM please read www.bt.com/bulksender"

 

or similar because BT/Yahoo cannot for a minute believe their systems may not be 100% perfect.

 

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BT Email Expert
BT Email Expert
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Message 17 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder

Spam filtering is really difficult to get right, indeed I’d challenge any vendor who thought they could deliver a perfect solution, as a result we will make mistakes on an individual email level and so we use lots of different measures to try and understand if we have the balance right and even when these measures look good we challenge ourselves to prove it.

 

To try and answer some of the questions being posed:

 

Tuning of our antispam filters happens all the time (24/7) so is not something our customer support team would necessarily be aware of.

 

We have employed some new technology after extensive testing, this testing included quantative and qualitative testing from customers really struggling with spam.

 

We assess the likelihood of an email being spam and will either reject the message (the sender is sent an error) or put it in the spam folder (the email is likely to be spam) or put it in the inbox (the email is likely to be genuine) this is a common approach all email suppliers take.

 

The team have been making huge strides in improving spam - including some recent changes that appear to have made a marked improvement in spam delivery – although we are challenging this vigorously because it is better to be sceptical - however tomorrow we could see some innovation from the spammers that disrupts the current performance.

 

I hope this helps explain the changes you are seeing.

Simon.

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old_email
Aspiring Expert
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Message 18 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder

@Simon-D (BT Email Expert)

 

Thank you for your input.  Of course tackling spam is a major and complex issue.  But I'd rather see more of that spam about which you have uncertainty than lose one false positive.  There is no easy way for me to get an institutional sender and yourselves to sort out errors and as it stands I am going to have to get another email provider.

 

Just to confirm the issues I get:

 

1) Some mail (part of a bulk processing system) from Fidelity International does not arrive.  Now they may well get a delivery message but it is just as likely that the bounce back is treated as spam their end.  Other mail from them arrives.  I get them to send the non-arriving mail to a gmail a/c which is set to forward to my primary bt address and this works. 

 

2) My electricity supplier, Powershop, sends mail to a joint Gmail a/c which then forwards to our individual BT addresses except it doesn't, we get a reject.  At least we can see it.  I don't know if the problem is with Powershop or Gmail but I do know I'd rather you didn't block it.

 

3) I mainly use POP3.  I like my mail stored on my computer with my control of backing it up.  I used to be able to say "Collect all mail including that marked as bulk".  Now I can't.   I have to look at my mail through the browser or IMAP periodically to check.

 

So until you can deliver a perfect solution just put the spam* somewhere where we can access it and mark it accordingly so that your anti-spam measures are improved instead of saying "we're doing pretty good and we won't worry about the odd false positive 'cause our stats are showing xx%".  You have no idea of the issues that 1-xx can cause when not delivered.

 

*You must surely be able to differentiate between types of spam.  I use POPFILE which is currently accurate to within 1% and that is on my own machine and I can see and train the errors.

 

 

 

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 19 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@Simon-D wrote:

Spam filtering is really difficult to get right, indeed I’d challenge any vendor who thought they could deliver a perfect solution, as a result we will make mistakes on an individual email level and so we use lots of different measures to try and understand if we have the balance right and even when these measures look good we challenge ourselves to prove it.

 



Hi.

 

You have not answered the issue reported in this forum many times where businesses were all of a sudden having their emails rejected to BTinternet email addresses only as spam.

 

I agree, there is never going to be a perfect solution, and different people have different spam for all sorts of reasons. Gmail has one of the best systems it seems.

 

Notwithstanding, all received emails may not be spam in the "general" sense. Most companies don't use a confirmed opt-in systems, and the issue with that is anyone making a mistake in their "order" and putting another person's email address in the system, typically means that company then has the wrong email address and starts sending advert emails. Naturally those are spam for the poor recipient.

That can get worse if the initial person didn't untick a "3rd party" box, meaning all sorts of companies could then start sending advert emails - effectively spamming an innocent person. Unsubscribe should never be used for something they didn't sign up to, meaning a problem for that user

 

Do you use spamhaus and other blocklists?

 

 

While we're at it, what's happening with any investigation where email clients/apps fail to access email, despite webmail working? That's typically for BTYahoo users, but some do report for BTMail.

 

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Distinguished Guru
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Message 20 of 43

Re: Not receiving any mails in Spam folder


@old_email wrote:

 


*You must surely be able to differentiate between types of spam.  I use POPFILE which is currently accurate to within 1% and that is on my own machine and I can see and train the errors.

 

 


That's not really going to work with a corporate anti-spam solution. For individuals it's completely different, as you say, you can "see and train" - a machine needs to do that for 100s of millions/billions of emails and not cause massive false positives.

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