Messages on this board from users of remote clients like Outlook have been repeating the same problems for over a year and no solution seems to be in sight.
That's because (IMHO) there is currently no solution, and the position can only get worse. I've set out what I think are the core issues on a website, and where I think solutions might lie, though none of them will be particularly palatable to many here, and indeed, as of today none are available.
I plan to put more analysis and background on there shortly, together with a large number of links to what I believe is the nature of the problem.
Fundamentally, I think if you get a message like
Task 'email@example.com - Sending' reported error (0x8004210B) : 'The operation timed out waiting for a response from the sending (SMTP) server. If you continue to receive this message, contact your server administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).' or
Task 'firstname.lastname@example.org - Receiving' reported error (0x800CCC92) : 'Your e-mail server rejected your login. Verify your user name and password for this account in Account Settings. The server responded: -ERR [SYS/TEMP] Server error - Please try again later.'or
Task 'email@example.com - Receiving' reported error (0x8004210A) : 'The operation timed out waiting for a response from the receiving (POP) server. If you continue to receive this message, contact your server administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).'
you are wasting your time calling BT. They could (IMHO) provide a workround today (just like Google and indeed, Yahoo proper have done) , but it seems it's not a direction they wish to take.
Please have a look at the site (which will expand shortly with more data), and tell me if you think I am mistaken , paranoid or whatever. Comment back in this thread, as I have disabled comments on my site.
It's at http://www.starcluster.co.uk
[Please note that this url does an http redirect, for reasons which may be obvious ... or not.]
Heh, Unwina, are you an old GPO guy ?? I used to be gob smacked in those days when they used to send a signwriter round to paint the telehone numbers on my modem racks .. and the cable tying was a work of pure art.
The issue has been happening far longer than a year, in fact many years.
There are a lot more errors than those you've listed, some have been due to incorrect settings by the user, and sometimes the fetch/send emails just times out with no error messages.
Not sure why you've particularly targetted Outlook, since the client is irrelevant. One of the reasons some people use Outlook is due to the fact that many use it in a work environment, and "at home" either have it as part of a corporate home user package, it comes bundled with their machine so they are happy to use it or simply buy it (with Office) because it's familiar.
What should happen is the support people take examples from new people reporting issues, take on board their details and trace through the systems to see what is happening to their access. As I've said elsewhere, it's hard to imagine anyone in UK support that doesn't see the same problem from time to time, at which point they have the opportunity to get this properly investigated.
It's likely that because Yahoo control the servers, and hence may not be in a position to give help for various reasons. Cost and manpower spring to mind, but again as I've said on numerous occasions, this cost would ultimately save money on end users suffering, less calls to the helpdesk etc.
This would also make BTinternet a better package. I am sure many users have been told porkies about this problem, got new computers, smart devices etc - and also left for other ISPs. As has been reported, the helpdesk say they don't support mail clients/app - leading to the user actually believing that only webmail works.
Only a fraction of people post to these forums, probably quite a few more lurking when searching for issues, but a lot will contact the helpdesk and been given false information.
Thank you for your very helpful comments. I'm going to update the web site bringing in your comments and clarifications.
1 You are correct that the client is irrelevant for the communications per se. However, the reason I cited Outlook is that a client application now has to comply with two sets of protocols to work, namely (a) POP3/IMAP and (b) access authorisation which in the case of BT Yahoo is now oauth2. Oauth2 is not supported by Outllook up to and including 2013, and hence ths becomes a client specific issue - other clients may do so; I don't know. Conformace with the actual mail protocols per se is necessary but now not sufficient for access.
2 You ae correct in saying that the errors I mentioned are not an exhaustive list. I gave a few examples, but the reason that I have focussed on oauth2 as a problem is that general set up and other issues can be adressed by the user; the authorisation issue cannot. Only BT Yahoo can fix that unless the users uses a compliant mail app.
3 If the user is (for example) using Outlook 2010 - me for exaample) there is nothing to fix at my end, and nothing that the BT support desk can do. My problems arise from the authorisation issues - my Linux mail server hasn't given me any such errors in 15 years, and having used Exchange / Outllook since 1997, I'm pretty darned sure the set up on my PC is correct.
4 The reality is that as they tighten down on applying oauth access, then the problems can only continue, and indeed get worse - probably by design. Non compliant client mail apps (and this is mainly Microsoft, as Thurderbird for example is theoretically compliant). There is nothing for the support desk to fix.
5 It sems to me that BT could fix this tomorrow by making the BT Yahoo mail the same as Yahoo mail. By permitting (a) forwarding and (b) the 'less secure apps' option all this aggravation would go away. It's really, really annoying because you can log inot the BT account with Yahoo user credentials, showing that the problems are entirely self imposed and uncessary.
I'll get Outlook 2016, and report on whether I get that to work.
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that there are many BTYahoo email users, many of whom use this forum, who use the various versions of Outlook and they have had no problems with BTYahoo email. This would in my opinion rule out your theory about Oauth2 being the problem. If it were then would all Outlook users not be affected.
What is certain, it's not Outlook. I've got access to 2010 & 2013, and both work as expected. When TB fails, so do they etc. It's therefore almost certainly nothing to do with oauth2.
If every single Outlook user had issues, then it would be different. By definition of forums, the main posts are those with problems.
I'm a newbie here, and will defer to more seasoned posters, and accept the consensus that authorisation is not relevant to the failures
However, it leaves us with various observations for which I have not seen a satisfactory explanation.
1 Multiple users have reported CC90, CC92 and 210B errors, when (for example) in the case of CC92 their password had not been changed, and where the system starts spontaneously working with the same password. I'd believe it was a timeout issue, but setting the tme out to 5 miinutes doesn't resolve the problem. BT don't offer an explanation, other than telling the user to pointlessly reset a password which didn't change.
2 The same observations have been reported by Gmail and Yahoo users, and the response has been to set the 'allow unsafe application' flag, after which the issue is resolved. Why is this ? The explanation given there is the random rejection of applications which don't support the stronger authorisation. [By random,. read radomly determined by the vendors to drive change, as admitted by Google.] Putting 2 and 2 together and possibly making 5, if this is the issue with Yahoo mail , then might this not be the case wth the same random errors in the cut down BT Yahoo?
3 I did not say the problem was solely with Outlook. I postulated in an earlier post it applied to any client which did not support oauth2, but have used Outlook because that is what I have and know. If authorisation were the issue, then any non-compliant application would obviiously suffer the same fate.
4 The problems are random, and come and go. Why is this? BT Yahoo have offered no explantion for this. Is it a load issue ? I think not, given it can happen at 01:00 in the morning. Yahoo constantly refer to 'less secure appllcations' when identical problems are repported, without being specific about what these might actually be, but the implication is that it is remote mail clients which are not compliant with whatever their authorisation mechanism is (see point 5)
5 Google stated that they have had a policy of randomly failing mail traffic which uses non compliant clients, albeit with a workround of the 'less secure' flag. Yahoo have also implemented oauth2, and stated that "by default, we block access to Yahoo Mail from outdated apps that could leave your account vulnerable. If we sent you an email indicating that your app is using outdated security protocols or you're unable to log in from an older app ..." If they use the same random filtering applied by Google, that would be an explanatiom for the random nature of he problems.
I have no ego, and I'm very happy to be wrong on this. However it does leave the question as to why some people suffer these repeated problems. Newbie or not, I'm pretty confident I can set up mail in Outlook, and I don't think the problems are at my end.
Working on the "hope for the best but plan for the worst" I (a) indeed hope you are correct, but wonder when BT Yahoo are gomg to resolve the issues, (b) have just downloaded Outlook 2016 in case it does turn out to be a authorisation protocol issue.
Time will tell, I guess, but meanwhile, I'll shut up. Thanks for your wise input.
I am still on BTYahoo and use Outlook 2010 as does my wife. Aside from a few short term failures (pressing F9 a few times usually works) my mail works ok and has done for the last 20 odd years. I don't believe that this is a systemic failure as not all customers are affected. The major problem as I see it is that Yahoo aren't quick enough to fix a machine when it goes faulty and regard every customer's failure as a one off rather than look for a common cause.