Digital Voice Change-Over

[Midnight_Voice]

@iniltous 

Connected to, but not necessarily plugged into.

The PSTN will be switched off in December 2025. Anybody who wants a ‘landline’ phone beyond that date will need to use IP (BT’s version is DV), or just possibly to be with an ISP who uses LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) which BT doesn’t.

Anybody who changes ISP, or maybe even just changes their package with their existing ISP, as of a few months ago, may have to move to FTTP (if they are on an FTTP Priority Exchange, and FTTP is available to their premises), and even if they can stay on FTTC, they won’t be able to stay on the PSTN, and will either have to go IP Phone or DV Phone, or be with an ISP using LLU, which works like the PSTN, but is separate.

[licquorice]

I have no idea what you are trying to say, but the move to BT Digital Voice can simply consist of unplugging an existing analogue phone from the phone socket and plugging it into the phone socket at the rear of the BT Smart Hub 2.

[Jane2018]

I think it is unlikely BT Is forcing anyone to take full fibre (fibre to the premises)  (whereas digital voice will be forced on everyone ultimately as analogue is going entirely). I presume it costs more for BT to arrange all the set up and not all customers need or want a faster connection, some think the existing broadband is fast enough for them etc etc.

Some wording can be very confusing in suggesting things have to happen when they don't (including currently lots of people whom companies are trying to persuade into smart meters). I would stick with doing nothing active and see what happens.

On BT not saying what will happen this seems to be a big issue with fibre to the premises eg some will only want it if they are guaranteed 100% they can keep a landline number only if the workman will bring it round to the back of the house and in that way but I believe nothing like that is every guaranteed so taking it is a massive risk if those things matter to you.

[Midnight_Voice]

@licquorice 

All of us who support users in this transition period are going to have to get our minds round all of this in the coming months 😢

Re your specific point about ‘simply’, the devil is in the ‘can’. If you reread the OP, @CatfordCat’s first post, the whole issue was that his mother had her original analogue phone in one place, and her Home Hub and a further extension some distance away, which he thought might cause some issues if they had to be connected together.

I was able to point out, though, that the connection can be made over DECT wirelessly, with a BT Digital Adapter, or by adopting a BT DV phone, and no physical connection is actually needed, though either will need to be resited somewhere there is a mains plug.

But there was also talk there of her having to go FTTP also, which I was enlarging upon.

I have a couple of questions though, that I think you might know the answers to, but I will save these for a separate post.

[CatfordCat]

@WSH, @Midnight_Voice  , @iniltous  , @licquorice  , @Jane2018 

Thanks for the responses, and apologies for not having responded sooner - other things have overtaken this the last couple of weeks.

As this forum doesn't seem to do multi-quote, I'll summarise / paraphrase -

Need to dial the full number including dialling code - thanks.  yes, I forgot about this a couple of times after going on to DV, it will mean editing the saved numbers in mum's landline phone (if that particular phone stays in use) but that's not a big deal.

Just plug landline phone in to the back of the smart hub instead - if it's as simple as that, then great.  But can the smart hub stay plugged in to a telephone socket (rather than an ethernet socket or something like that)?   If it really is that simple, why does an engineer need go come round and do something? 

At the risk of repeating, the concern we have is that the smart hub will need to be plugged in to a new / replacement socket in the front hallway.  The trouble with that is it's not near a mains power socket, and not near the computer (which is a PC which runs off an ethernet cable, not a laptop on wi-fi.)  I can see ways round either which will involve extension cables either from socket to smart hub or smart hub to computer and / or for AC power, but it's the not knowing what's going to be needed / how to deal with it that is the issue.    There's a risk there's going to be at least a few days when internet / phone are not useable, depending on what needs to be done, how quickly I can get whatever cables are needed, and how quickly I can get time off work to go over there and sort it all out (I live about a 2 hour journey away.)

wait and see what happens - that would be my preferred approach, and I am sure it will get sorted out in the end, but it is not mum's.

I appreciate that to some people (and quite possibly to BT senior management) this may all seem trivial, but to an 80+ year old who lives alone and depends on the internet for basics like shopping, and for a lot of her contact with the outside world (she does not have a smart phone, just a very basic mobile phone, so relying on a 4G signal for a few days isn't an option) this is quite a big deal, and is causing a lot of worry, which I am on the receiving end of, and I just don't know the answers.

Ideal would be for there to be some way of talking to someone at BT who would be able to answer the questions we have...

[jac_95]

It sounds like the property maybe in a copper stop sell area and Openreach Full fibre (FTTP) is now the only available service

You can check following the guidance at: https://landlinesgo.digital/checkmyline/

If FTTP (Full Fibre) is the only service available then this will be the reason why an engineer is required.

Also when an area becomes a FTTP (Full Fibre) only area and covered by a copper stop sell then a move to Digital Voice will usually mean a move to FTTP (Full Fibre) too.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-the-copper-network

With FTTP (Full Fibre) install you have some say of where you want the new equipment and needs to be a power supply.

See Openreach's FTTP (Full Fibre) installation process https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist

[licquorice]

Ok, a few things to consider.

If moving to full fibre, the location of the fibre modem (ONT) and router don't necessarily have to be where the current phone socket is located. It will be up to the engineer on the  day, but it might well be possible for the fibre to enter at a more convenient location

Both the ONT and hub will require mains power.

If the ONT can't be sited in a more convenient location, the hub can be located up to 100metres from it but will require you run an Ethernet cable between the two.

Digital adapters can be plugged into any mains socket to provide an analogue interface for any phone.

Alternatively, a BT Digital Voice phone can be used anywhere, the hub simply providing a cordless (DECT) base station.

[CatfordCat]

@jac_95 

Thanks.

I've tried that with mum's address, and the result (with address cropped out) is below.  Seems to be that it's a 'WLR withdrawal area', and FTTC is not available.  

WLR is a new acronym on me, but am I right in thinking this means the copper wires are going, so going on to full fibre is pretty much compulsory?

Personally, I'm inclined to think it would probably be easier to change over to full fibre and get it all over and done with in one go, rather than change on to digital voice soon then change to full fibre in a year or so.  Whether mum will agree with that (if there is a choice in the matter) I couldn't say.

BT have tried to sell full fibre to her already, and she has declined the offer on the basis of not wanting to have to deal with someone coming round and doing things.

[Midnight_Voice]

@jac_95 

A ’Copper stop sell’ area can only be one with 100% Full Fibre coverage.

What we have at the moment is FTTP Priority areas, where if you are changing your broadband and you can get FTTP, then you must move to FTTP; but even in those areas, if you can’t get FTTP, then your new FTTC will still come with copper to the cabinet.

However, everywhere is now a Copper Telephony Stop Sell area, as new copper PSTN lines are no longer available to be installed. (Apart from a bagful of arcane exceptions, unlikely to apply to domestic BT customers).

[CatfordCat]

@licquorice 

Thanks.

Having the ONT (and getting mains power to it) as well is a complication I hadn't thought about.

As a 1930s house, it's not very well supplied with mains power sockets (although the house was re-wired about 25 years ago, so it has more than it once did)

I will have more of a look at the links that @jac_95 provided, but from an initial look, a few more questions

Does the ONT box have to be on an outside wall, directly behind the external junction box, or can a wire be run from one to the other?

Does the external junction box (and potentially therefore the ONT box) have to be at ground floor level?  Mum's 'office' room is one of the first floor bedrooms, so for practicality now, installing the whole thing in that room may make sense, although that's possibly not an attractive option if and when we get to the point of selling the house.

Does an engineer visit once to explore the options and measure up, and then (they or someone else) come back another day to actually do it, or will it be an engineer makes one visit and does it then?  

If it's the latter then I'm probably going to have to be there on the day to make sure mum doesn't get bounced in to accepting an 'easy to do' option that ends up causing more problems...