Digital Voice Change-Over

[Midnight_Voice]

@CatfordCat 

Your Mum is in an FTTP priority area, and FTTP is available at her premises, so if she changes her broadband, it will have to be to FTTP.

But I don’t think BT can insist that she changes to it, and I’m not sure where any pressure for this may be coming from.

What is happening is that she will lose her landline telephone service when this is switched off in December 2025, and if she wants to keep a telephone service with BT (rather than going all-mobile, as many people are doing anyway) she will need to go DV before this date.

Something which, as we have discussed, means having her phone, possibly her existing phone, where it can be plugged into a Digital Voice Adapter connected to the mains, rather than kept in the hall where no mains socket is available.

And as long as she doesn’t change her broadband service, it can stay as it is, probably into the 2030’s, as it’s going to be years before BT can start actually stripping out the existing copper, exchange by exchange.

As I understand it, at least.

[CatfordCat]

@Midnight_Voice 

thanks again, but i'm now even more confused by it all.

I understand the bit about additional phones needing to be plugged in to an adapter in an AC power socket. 

Going all-mobile is not something mum wants to do - apart from the practicalities, it would be an additional cost (she has a basic non-smart phone on a pay as you go plan, more or less for emergencies)

the person I spoke to at BT they said she isn't going on to full fibre, but the letter she had says she is  (extract posted below)

If she's not going on to full fibre, and it's as simple as just plugging one phone in to the home hub (that in turn is plugged in to a basic phone socket) then why does an engineer need to call?

[Midnight_Voice]

@CatfordCat 

Oh wow, so BT are trying to force her onto Full Fibre. That changes things. I suspect she can say ‘No thanks’ though, as the person you spoke to at BT seemed to imply.

BT do rather have form with weasel-worded documents - look how they tried to get YouView users to send their boxes back, when they were in fact the property of those ex-subscribers 😢

And yes indeed, an engineer isn’t needed to plug a phone in; in fact my own FTTP was a self-install to the ONT I found already installed in our new-build house, router, Ethernet cable and DV Adapter provided by BT, but set up by me.

So I doubt Openreach would send an engineer to do that - though maybe if your Mum didn’t have you to do it, they would - but they would certainly send one to install an ONT. 

The key point - if you let them go ahead, as free is a good price - seems to be trying to ensure the ONT can be installed and connected to the router in its current location, constrained as it is by the telephone and the computer connected to it.

I think you are entitled to ask how Openreach intend to achieve this, and to politely decline if the answer is not to you and your Mum’s satisfaction.

. Anybody from BT like to comment on this?

[jac_95]

@Midnight_Voice 

A copper stop sell (otherwise known as a FTTP priority stop sell) is put in place once 75% of that exchange area is covered by Openreach FTTP. It covers properties that have FTTP available to them in that area that is now declared as a copper stop sell area and essential means there's order restrictions put in place that only allows FTTP to be provided (restrictions apply for new supply along with regrades a d upgrades)

See the Openreach stop sell information (primarily written for communication providers) - https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

A more end user friendly description of the copper stop sell and what it means is at: https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-the-copper-network

[jac_95]

@CatfordCat 

From the wholesale checker the address states that the FTTP fibre cable will be delivered to the property via overhead. If the copper line is also delivered to the property today as a overhead line then the fibre cable will most likely follow the same route to the property.

You have some say within reason As for where you then want the service box to be on the outside (ground level) and then where the fibre enters the property to ultimately connect to the ONT (internal fibre box) and the BT Smart Hub.

As long as it's not lots and lots of routing of the fibre cable then whoever is installing it should be ok with a reasonable location of the ONT inside the property.

That being said, if you ignore the letter for now then the existing connection and phone service will still be present.

There will ultimately be a time though where both the WLR/PSTN closure and the Copper stop sell (FTTP priority stop sell) will result in something needing to be done. The WLR/PSTN closure is now dated January 2027 so by then the phone service will need to be moved off the traditional analogue phone system.

Also does your mother have a telecare/care alarm or panic button? If so please make BT aware of these so extra checks and procedures are put in place to ensure these will continue to function after the switch to Digital Voice.

[Midnight_Voice]

@jac_95 

Neither of the articles you reference refers to ‘copper stop sell’, and nor can I find any such reference in extensive Google searches, except in informal third party references.

And FTTP Priority Area isn’t synonymous with ‘no more copper’. Sure, it’s no more copper for customers in those areas who can take FTTP for a new service - if they can, they must - but if FTTP is not available at their premises, then copper must needs go in to support their FTTC. It won’t go beyond the cabinet, back to the exchange, like it used to, so less copper, but still some copper.

You might argue that this is just semantics, and I might well agree with you; but for whatever reason, BT and Openreach have been avoiding using the term ‘copper stop sell’ in their literature, both for providers and for consumers, for several years now.

[CatfordCat]

@jac_95 

Thanks.

From the wholesale checker the address states that the FTTP fibre cable will be delivered to the property via overhead.

Yes - current telephone line in is from a traditional telegraph pole and wire to rooftop level then a wire down the front of the house that goes in through a hole in the front door frame.

That being said, if you ignore the letter for now then the existing connection and phone service will still be present.

I can see some merit in that, although is that going to lead to a need to do something urgently at some unspecified point in the future? 

Also does your mother have a telecare/care alarm or panic button? If so please make BT aware of these so extra checks and procedures are put in place to ensure these will continue to function after the switch to Digital Voice.

Thanks for the thought, but no, there's nothing like that to think about.

[Jane2018]

having seen the BT communication you pasted above I woul do absolutely nothing. It reminds me of what my power company is sending at present - slightly confusing communications implying I have to have a smart meter when i do not, even pretending appointments have been made that have not been. I do nothing.

If your mother does nothing at all we now know BT have moved digital voice back to 2027 (last week's announcement) so quite a while away before we have to start plugging landlines into backs of new modems. I am not going to change a single thing in the meantime and just wait it out as I want things to stay the same.

I do not think your mother can be moved to a different service despite the BT communication which implies otherwise so if she does nothing I really don't think she will then be rushed into something later without enough time to plan. "If in doubt, do now't"