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george1976
Contributor
1,078 Views
Message 991 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

@dubstepzombie  With all do respect mate, stop saying lag up to 100ms is normal, it is not.

I believe BT did something, I have a FritzBox as my router now and even with Netflix on I only get short spikes to 45ms in World Of Tanks, a game very sensitive to lag.

I have watched the Netflix behaviour on the network monitor on Fritzbox and around 20 seconds Netflix is buffering around 10Mbit/s rest is 4-6 Mbit/s for HD

I have to mention that it is not only the router that is helping, I had a third party router before with QOS and it did not help, looks like things improved now, although my ping is at 14ms compared to 6ms before and BT swears there's no interleaving on my line.

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dubstepzombie
Aspiring Expert
1,065 Views
Message 992 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

@george1976 

Indeed 100ms isn't a 'normal' ping level but it's a good place to start in terms of identifying the BT infrastructure issue which gave pings way above 100ms. I can't speak for everyone's VDSL quality, whether Wifi is being used and other factors that may affect the end ping level, hence the 100ms would be an upper limit of a potential normal ping while a connection is being saturated or saturated in bursts from streaming. I think BT also used this value in terms of identifying the ping issue.

I know the max ping I see is 60ms with a fully saturated connection but I know I have  a good quality VDSL connection, no interleave with minimal errors or retries and a top notch ISP.

Plus of course it depends where you're pinging from and to, someone up north with interleave enabled pinging the bbc.co.uk down London is likely to have  20 to 30 ms base ping before they even get ping spikes,  add 50ms to 30ms and you're at 80ms for what might be an acceptable /  normal ping, ping anywhere in the US and your ping will be 90+ms, so there's lots of variables. Speak to any ISP , I've spoke to many, not a single one will quote you on what your ping will likely end up being, it's next to impossible to predict with any accuracy. As you say yourself your base ping has doubled with no apparent explanation.

There's no real way to limit a network request in terms of speed, you can only limit it by requesting data less often or by delaying the ACKs if TCP or dropping packets, this boils down to packets per second, if a  bunch of Netlfix packets coincide with your gaming packets you'll get a ping spike. So if you in effect spread out streaming packets over a longer period of time, which equates to less average through put you've got less chance of the packets coinciding.

Again there's lots of variables in terms of streaming application, twitch, youtube, disney, iplayer etc, browsers might be different, Windows or Mac  or chrome cast or smart TV or smart phone, all will request data more aggressively or not, producing different ping spikes. The upfront buffering will almost always be more aggressive than the steady state buffering, so starting  a stream is likely to cause more ping spikes.

Normal QoS where you tag packets for low latency isn't going to help much, you might be able to tag UDP packets for faster processing by your router, the only way I've found is to use queues and limiting bandwidth to give more space for gaming packets to get through. Mikrotik routers with their routerOS has this feature and Ubiquiti Edge routers as well, I've used both. I get no ping spikes at all with other users on my network and them doing all sorts of streaming, you tube, downloading, whatever they like, simply because my connection is never saturated.

I'd say a base ping jumping from 6ms to 14ms sounds very much like an interleave delay, you should be able to see this in your modem / DSL stats.

From my experience modems and routers aren't overly different in terms of adding extra latency, I've tested many modems, all in one setups, separate router modem setups, all fall within a  few ms of variation.  As said the difference is brought about by what configuration they offer and general overall quality / stability / consistent latency i.e. I've yet to find a modem that shaves any more than 2ms off my ping compared to other models.

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george1976
Contributor
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Message 993 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

@dubstepzombie 

I agree with most of what you said😊 I just hope that anyone lurking around in this thread, like I did also, to find a solution for this problem ,already knows by this post that: 

Only test a connection when nothing else uses it so you can see where you start.

Only test with a cable connected to the router.

When running a speed test , Ookla gives you the chance to change servers and Dslreport is very good also.

This should help you not having to explain to everyone these things like I see you do when trying to help. Good job by the way, lots of people here probably fixed their issues with your advice 

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loanhead
Aspiring Expert
1,037 Views
Message 994 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

  • I must have knocked my MacBook MagSafe adapter positioning it alongside the router yesterday. Just went to check the last 24 hours and it’s dead. I’ll need to try again.

I applied fairly strict QoS (it’s QoS rules are very basic unfortunately), left a good free overhead on available bandwidth and stuck the streaming devices in the lowest category with the Xbox prioritised in highest.

I was gaming and didn’t notice any lagging, rubber banding even once over maybe 6+ games of Modern Warfare. I am unsure if my partner was using any streaming services at the same time. I very much doubt my connection was anywhere close to being saturated for QoS to come into play.

I feel even changing router appears to have been beneficial to a degree.

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LatencyLul
Beginner
920 Views
Message 995 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

Hello everyone I have been having this problem for over a year now, I’m on EE and I wrote in the EE forums about the issue and was linked this thread. My problem is that whenever someone does ANYTHING at all on the internet it causes spikes. Even something as little as refreshing a page or opening new pages causes spikes and sometimes packet loss. The problem gets significantly worse when someone is streaming a video. 

 

This problem pretty much makes gaming for me unplayable whenever someone else is at home. 

I've tried using QoS on 2 different routers with many different settings and still end up with the same result.

I've done tests on my iPhone wirelessly also and get similar results regarding ping spikes while someone is watching a video/netflix stream.

 

I’m at a complete dead end and I’m almost certain its a fault on EE/BT’s side.

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george1976
Contributor
897 Views
Message 996 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

@LatencyLul Have you tried reporting your line as faulty to your provider or checking their troubleshooter online?

It seems a bit weird that the problem appears even for normal browsing, this thread is about the streaming issues.

Maybe the wires from your property to the street cabinet are not OK and if there is an issue they will send an Openreach engineer to check it. 

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LatencyLul
Beginner
884 Views
Message 997 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

I’ve spoken to my mum and she’s going to ring tomorrow, its impossible for me because I don’t have access to the EE account. I’ll post updates! 

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Tyrrell91
Aspiring Contributor
545 Views
Message 998 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

Having the exact same issue. I have been in this property for almost 3 years. When I first moved in, the service was good and a year or so in I started to get huge ping issues when someone else in my house was streaming any TV service. I called BT, raised a complaint and something (who knows what) was changed and it was fixed. Great. 
I then recontracted and from that very week I’ve had the same issues again, only this time it can’t be fixed. I’ve had an internal and external engineer out. The external one did say my port was faulty but subsequently replaced it and still the same issue persists.

I have tried a TP-LINK router but the issue is still there too. On top of that, if I make any sort of complaint to BT whilst it’s plugged in, they blame by third party software and tell me that it’s my own fault. So, back to the Smart Hub.

My download speed has dropped by around 10mb since I moved in (it was only 30mb to start with) but I can live with the low download if the ping is stable. Unfortunately, as soon as I turn on any streaming service, the ping goes to between 150-300 and which is obviously unusable.

I have tried the same experiment with the same equipment at a friends house who lives across the street. His service is fine and, whilst he is with another provider, they use the same green box and he has none of the same issues.

Really struggling now. I have tried absolutely everything and when I call BT all I get told is that 10 devices is a lot to have on one router. They ignore the fact that 8 of them are turned off (and they can see that at their end!) and the problem is still there. They also tell me that they don’t guarantee latency, only speed, and basically they don’t care. 

I certainly won’t be renewing with BT but I’m a long way from my contract exit date and they’ve quoted me £600 or leave early...

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john9411
Contributor
535 Views
Message 999 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

@Tyrrell91 

Whilst I sympathise with your predicament even changing ISP will not necessarily solve your problem particularly if you are FTTC as it will still be the same copper link to the cabinet and with nearly all ISPs it will still be Openreach's network.

I moved to Leetline who advertise them themselves as a network for gamers and whilst there has been some improvement it is still far from perfect when someone else is streaming Netflix etc.

I. like most people I suspect, am on FTTC and all I keep hearing/being told is that until FTTP is available I will just have to live with the problem. Well I am not convinced about any future improvement as a friend has 100mb FTTP and still has problems with lag when gaming if someone is streaming.

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dubstepzombie
Aspiring Expert
519 Views
Message 1000 of 1,014

Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix

 

With correct gear and setup you should be able to run ping spike free, as below see a snapshot of an active speed test .net, obviously this is the worst case scenario consuming the max bandwidth I've allocated. On the left is a active ping graph pinging every 1 second and as you can see there's only a few extra ms of latency. I'm with leetline so if I can do it then everyone else should be able to. I can't comment on whether BT still has issues but if you've got a clean FTTC connection there's no reason why the below can't be achieved. 

 

activeSpeedTest.png

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