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MorgaineD
Expert
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Message 21 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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The above exchange made me chuckle.  You're both right, but a person's position on this matter depends entirely on the aims that one has in life and how one sees oneself as part of society.  Three ism's are at play here [relevant aspects in brackets]:

 

pragmatism [a practical approach to overcoming problems]

professionalism [a belief that quality and standards matter]

ethicism [a belief that ethics and social values are important]

 

@Liam_ is entirely right that the pragmatic solution is to replace the poorly endowed, poorly functional, and poorly supported HH6 by a third party CPE, and the sooner the better.  That's why virtually all the long-term contributers on this forum are advising exactly that.  It needn't cost you a lot, it will provide you with many important features, it will in most cases work properly (small exception with IPv6 as not all manufacturers handle the /56 delegation properly yet), it will in most cases work reliably 100% of the time, and it will isolate you from BT firmware updates and the risks associated with TR-069.  This is an unbeatable deal.

 

But for many people, there are other ism's to consider as well, even if one does buy a 3rd party CPE.

 

My engineering and academic background doesn't allow for raw pragmatism, as professional quality engineering and a positive ethical relationship between product/service providers and their users are all part of the big picture in a civilized society.  That has ramifications in the other two ism's:

 

* The HH6 has not been designed to professional standards of quality nor reliability, as everyone who reads this forum knows all too well.  That is the reason for the pragmatic advice given by long-time contributors --- they have given up entirely on BT's ability to fix the problems, and are no longer even trying to apply feedback to the developers.  Where I differ from the pragmatic view is that I haven't given up on BT yet, despite that being by far the easiest way forward.  I echo @getfixing's view on this:  "this should just be fixed".  (Not just this single feature, but also other things like providing user control over firmware and reboots.)

 

* The very poor quality of HH6 also has ethical ramifications.  In no other area that I've come across does an equipment provider get away with sending replacements 5 times or more to some poor customer and turning him or her into a victim of poor quality standards.  One failed router may be acceptable because nothing is perfect, but a whole sequence of them suggests bad quality engineering and no quality assurance, neither of which shouild even be possible in an ISO 9000 accredited company like BT.  This is nothing less than customer abuse.  Pragmatically leaving that horrible mess behind by buying a 3rd party router does nothing for other customers who will suffer the same symptoms.  "This should just be fixed" applies also to the ethics of treating customers this way.  It's unacceptable.

 

So, while I do understand why the pragmatic advice is given, and even support it myself, I don't think that that's the end of the story.  We should also be trying to rectify a really bad situation by all the means available, rather than abandoning the problem.

Baboonboy
Beginner
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Message 22 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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Certainly couldn't have put it better!!! BT need to listen to customers.  Throwing good money after replacement products shouldn't be the answer when the original problems could be fairly easily fixed.

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smf22
Recognised Expert
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Message 23 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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The problems may be fairly easily fixed, but BT doos not have a mechanism whereby customer issues, and analysis and diagnostics from those issues, can be captured and fed back.

This means any developers and engineers are working in the dark, or having to recreate what they think is the problem.

Other companies I work with will have engineers monitoring forums such as this and collect diagnostics directly from the person originally reporting the problem.

As BT do not adopt such an approach, the possibility of a fix is somewhat 'hit and miss', with the time to resolve typically significantly increased.
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MorgaineD
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Message 24 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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@smf22 writes:

 

> "The problems may be fairly easily fixed, but BT doos not have a mechanism whereby customer issues, and analysis and diagnostics from those issues, can be captured and fed back."

 

You've identified the primary problem perfectly, that's spot on.  I've referred to the failure of both development and support processes in this customer-facing area before, but as you point out, those two are not independent.  Without a properly working support process, the development process is severely hampered through lack of direct and detailed feedback.

 

BT's customer support process is like from a bygone, pre-Internet age, unable to cope with written user input at all and lacking persistence, so you end up explaining the same details verbally again and again.  This hampers the support staff instead of helping them, and needless to say it's incredibly frustrating for the long-suffering customer.  The cost of human 1:1 support is extremely high (and we pay for it), and the experience is poor.

 

If there were just one single thing that BT could do to bring its support systems into a modern age and greatly assist both its support people and its customers, it would be to provide a public issue tracker to gather up all fault reporting and requests for enhancements under one searchable facility.  There is a huge number of alternatives available in this area, many of them open source and with very good reputations, eg. those listed here --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue-tracking_systems

 

(PS. Something called a "fault tracker" does exist in the standard BT support flow, but it's a useless abomination that doesn't deserve the name since it neither allows you to describe your fault nor has any persistence, among many other problems with it.)

 

Armed with a proper issue tracker, faults would have full traceability throughout the whole process until they are resolved, and the full technical details or just the statistics would be available to all the parties that need them.  That would provide the kind of visibility and quality feedback that any technical organization needs to be able to do a good job in an efficient and scalable manner.  It's severely lacking currently.

 

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getfixing
Beginner
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Message 25 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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and this is the key issue with BT.

 

There needs to be a way for customers to report issues relating to the smart hub, either via a link in the Hub on the advanced settings page or a specific website.

 

There are a number of issues with the Hub from TR69 and other complaints.

 

I paid around £50 for "activation" and hub costs and this is NOT fit for purpose in its current state.

 

If need be I will esclate this entire matter with the High Level complaints office.

 

It's dire, and if I need a different router then BT can refund the costs of getting the HH6.

 

I will then just get a third party router and open reach modem.

 

Funny how the mods ignore stuff on here and claim this is just a user forum with no route to get issues raised with a hope of getting any kind of fix.

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MorgaineD
Expert
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Message 26 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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@getfixing writes:

 

> "Funny how the mods ignore stuff on here and claim this is just a user forum with no route to get issues raised with a hope of getting any kind of fix."

 

It's not funny at all, it's scandalous.  BT have a very nicely working point of contact with customers here, yet they refuse to use it publicly.  (Note the word publicly --- mods quite often use it in private PMs, 1-on-1 with customers who they either cherry pick themselves or are recommended to them by select forum members.)

 

And that really is scandalous, because 1:1 human support is the most expensive kind there is, nobody else except that single person is able to benefit from the support, and we pay for all this in more costly services.

 

It's also scandalous because refusing to discuss faults publicly brushes the problems under the carpet, and under those conditions there is no way for customers to know whether faults are being reported to BT because they refuse to acknowledge them publicly in the forum.

 

So no, it's not funny at all.  It's extremely unprofessional of the company, and I'm dismayed that a major British company can act this way.

 

smf22
Recognised Expert
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Message 27 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem

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100% agree with you here @MorgaineD. And contrast this with the way the vendor of the brand of router I use handles issues on their forum.

 

A week ago a security vulnerability was raised by a forum member. A UBNT developer picked this off the forum and within three days had investigated, developed the fix and stated remediation would be integrated into the next version due for release end of May / start of June. After a forum member publicly stated "Pretty relaxed schedule for an issue rated "9.8 Critical"..." and other members commented along the same lines, UBNT has announced an interim release next week to include only this fix.

 

Public debate, public pressure, vendor response and satisfactory outcome all within a week.

 

Regards

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humps
Newbie
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Message 28 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem - SOLUTION

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I was using the BT homehub 5 but bought a used SmartHub from ebay to see if it fixes my only dead spot in the house (and it does!). I have every incentive to keep the old SSID and passwords from HH5 which importantly lead me to this forum!

 

I'm a server side programmer by trade and I don't write javascripts. But after seeing how my javascript colleagues debug using Chrome browser I thought I can overcome this issue with SmartHub where it kept on applying -5 to the 5Ghz SSID.

 

You will only need Google Chrome browser (DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK, I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITIES!).

1. Login to the SmartHub admin page as normal with admin password, navigate to change wifi settings where you can now type in separate SSID for 2.4 and 5Ghz bands.

2. Press F12 to activate Chrome Developer Tools. I move the Dev Tools panel to bottom of my screen for easy of use but it is not important where it is.

3. Click 'Console' tab of the Dev Tools panel. (we'll use the javascript console to override AngularJS values in the page, overriding the javascript auto -5 correct)

4. At the Console where '>' is shown, type the below, replace XXXX with your own SSID and hit enter:

angular.element(document.getElementById('wifi5SSID')).scope().wifi5G.ssid = "XXXXX"

5. Then type the below command to apply the SSID on to the screen

angular.element(document.getElementById('wifi5SSID')).scope().$apply()

6. The page should now show your SSID without -5, if not, give up before you ruin anything unless you know what you're doing!

7. Click Save.

8. If it comes up with red pop-up as it warned my about password strength, it would have ruined the SSID. If you see the SSID is changed behind the red pop-up, repeat step 4 and 5 to re-correct the SSID before hitting 'Accept' on the pop-up.

9. Your desired SSID should be saved without and -5 suffix.

Da_Matser
Beginner
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Message 29 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem - SOLUTION

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Thanks @humps you're a very clever star!

 

I had a pop-up simply asking if I was sure - so had to redo steps 4 & 5 as instructed before hitting Save.

 

One thing I will say that others might find useful is that the ">" is the prompt right at the bottom of the Console tab.  Took me ages to find it!

 

Why BT try to force this, God only knows :manmad:

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isoya
Beginner
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Message 30 of 32

Re: Smart Hub - wifi network names problem - SOLUTION

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New hub received and still has this bug 'feature'. I think they made some effort and patched the software so extra steps required on top of@humps's solution for me to get it to work. Here it goes:

 

1. Type in the 5G SSID such that it triggers the Save button to be clickable.

2. Perform the steps 2-5 in @humps's post (These steps no longer updates the value shown input box)

3. Use Chrome Dev Tools and Inspect the 5G SSID input box.

4. At the Console where '>' is shown, type the below, replace XXXX with your own SSID and hit enter:

$0.value = "XXXXX"

5. The 5G SSID input box should now show your preferred SSID without the '-5'

6. Click Save (Basically steps 6-9 in @humps's post.)

 

Hope this post will help some other Recent Black Friday customers who prefers not have to change their 5G SSID on ALL their devices.

 

Lessons learnt for '-5' HH6 developer in question, if you want to enforce something, never put the business logic client side...

 

 

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