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chadders74
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Message 1 of 20

Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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Hi,

 

I wonder if you could answer a few questions:

 

#1 Are BT/OpenReach responsible for the wire from the back of the NTE5 master socket and beyond?

I believe I am only responsible for anything from the master socket "inwards" inside my home. #151 faults have told me I am responsible for everything within the boundary of my property.

 

#2 Our local area is all underground cabling. The phoneline comes under the front gardens (semi-detached), and appears at the wall, middle of both houses. Small circular junction box, line off to each house. The cable from the junction to our house is 6-core white cable, looks suspiciously the same as the internal extension wiring you can buy yourself. Should this quality of cable be used externally?

 

#3 There is a second phone line to our home from the junction box, we have never had a second line so presume the previous owners asked for this. The line is not connected, I have removed the wall socket it went to and clipped the cable back. This 2nd line cable is a simple grey 2-core, and I have noticed that it has a break in the outer sleeve, and can see the bare metal of the enclosed cable. Would this be a free of charge visit by an Engineer to remove?

 

Background:

Two weeks ago, I was prompted by failing internet connection to do the quiet line test using a corded phone in the master socket. To say there was noise on the line was an understatement! Unfortunately #151 fault did a line test and reported no problems. Then warned of £130 call out charge, and asked if I wanted an Engineer out. Of course I didn't want to risk it, replacement router seemed to coincidentally arrive when the line noise had subsided.

 

Back to testing today, same quiet line test, still have feint noise on line. Nothing spectacular but all the same, I'd rather it resolved.

 

#151, same routine. Do a line test, no fault, warn of £130 charge and ask if I want an Engineer out.

 

Here lies the rub, I am wondering if the broken second line cable and/or the internal quality cable on their own would be sufficient for an Engineer to visit anyway, ie FREE. Can I get an answer out of #151, no I can't. The ropey answer to question #1 above from #151 leads me to believe I can't get off the call centre script of "do line test, book engineer."

 

I wish I was responsible for the line within my property, I could happily remove and replace the cables!

 

edit: coincidentally two weeks the weather was very bad, torrential rain and wind. Now it's sunny, calm but **bleep** cold. This "noise" has been on and off over the years, but hasn't caused internet issues until now.

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Distinguished Sage
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Message 2 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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You are responsible for anything on the internal side of your master socket, which should look like this.

 

The front bottom section is removable, and there is a test socket behind it. If you can hear the noise when you plug a phone into the test socket, then the problem is external, and Openreach are responsible.

 

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chadders74
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Message 3 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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Apologies, please subsitute "Test Socket" for "Master Socket" in my original post!

 

After reading other posts, I am just worried about an Engineer turning up for "line noise" and there being none on the day in question, and thus being on the receiving end of a £130 bill.

 

edit: I am trying to ascertain if the outside cables are in fact "an issue", and will lead to a guaranteed free Engineer visit regardless of line noise.

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Distinguished Sage
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Message 4 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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@chadders74 wrote:

Apologies, please subsitute "Test Socket" for "Master Socket" in my original post!

 

After reading other posts, I am just worried about an Engineer turning up for "line noise" and there being none on the day in question, and thus being on the receiving end of a £130 bill.

 

edit: I am trying to ascertain if the outside cables are in fact "an issue", and will lead to a guaranteed free Engineer visit regardless of line noise.


Well if the noise is still there at the test socket, then there is an external issue somewhere. The "internal" cable used outside does not sound right. It could have water ingress causing all manner of problems.

 

In theory, Openreach should do what they call a "Quality Check", at the cabinet and distribution point, especially if its a repeat fault.

It could be a high resistance connection or corrosion.

 

Charging is a difficult issue. It all depends on how the Openreach technician closes their job. Sometime charges can be raised by mistake.

 

I would report it as an intermittent noisy phone problem which happens when it rains, and mention the poor state of the external DP (Distribution Point). Do not report it as broadband fault

 

With luck they should repace the wiring, and remove any unwanted terminations, which could be introducing noise into the line.

If the Openreach technician does do work outside, then he should make sure that this is recorded as the possible fault, and not "fault not found (FNF)" or "right when tested (RWT)".

 

If that is done correctly, then you should not be charged. You may like to mention it to them Smiley Wink

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chadders74
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Message 5 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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Thanks Keith, I've read up and steered well clear of mentioning broadband to BT.

 

I know what should happen, you know what should happen... It seems the only thing to do is have a gamble and let #151 send out an Engineer?

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Distinguished Sage
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Message 6 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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@chadders74 wrote:

Thanks Keith, I've read up and steered well clear of mentioning broadband to BT.

 

I know what should happen, you know what should happen... It seems the only thing to do is have a gamble and let #151 send out an Engineer?


Don`t let them inside until they have checked/replaced any external connections, including the street cabinet. It may be necessary to replace the section of cable from the DP, to your master socket. So they will need to come inside then.

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chadders74
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Message 7 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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Well fingers crossed, after finding noise on the line again today, Engineer booked for tomorrow morning.

 

Note made to do as you've said, especially regarding FNF/RWT.

 

Should anyone from BT be reading this, I'm giving serious consideration to letting another company take over our landline. Simply on the basis that on the three occasions I have called #151, I am tired of:

 

1) having to repeat myself.

2) having the call handler repeat themself.

3) switching off and ignoring your call handler as they speak at 5,000 mph, unintelligbly repeating more or less the same statement.

 

I fully appreciate language barriers where a call handler's native language isn't English, but if you are to have them speaking with your customers then their second language level should be of a reasonable standard.

 

Point in case, my broadband provider's tech support are Bulgarian and I've never had a problem speaking to them.

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Distinguished Sage
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Message 8 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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@chadders74 wrote:

 

Point in case, my broadband provider's tech support are Bulgarian and I've never had a problem speaking to them.


I thought all of the BT Broadband support people were in India? I was not aware they had a help desk in Bulgaria.

 

This forum is for BT Broadband customers only. If you are not with BT Broadband then the charging process is different. So disregard everything I said about charges. What I said only applies to BT Broadband.

 

Your actual charges could be more or less, as they are passed on to your ISP. Its your ISP who should have arranged the Openreach visit.

 

 

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Message 9 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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Hi

Just to add my experience on this.

1. You are responsible for any damage to your phone line "within the confines of your property"

      If you are digging the garden or pruning your roses and you damage the cable: YOU are liable to a repair charge

      If a tree that belongs to you damages the over head wire: YOU are liable to a repair charge

      If you have replacement windows/doors and the incoming line gets damaged (even a fews years later due to corrosion): YOU are liable to a repair charge.

 

I am sure there are many more examples, these are the more common ones.

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chadders74
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Message 10 of 20

Re: Questions - Drop Lines & Responsibility, Noise, Engineer Call Out Charge

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@Keith - it's my understanding that I'm in a "phones" forum for BT Customers - I am a BT Customer, I have my land line with them. I have my broadband elsewhere. The problem I am experiencing, and have for a number of years is "noise" on the phone line. Whilst this affects my broadband connection, this is present in voice calls. It's just that it's now getting to problematic levels in wet weather.

 

I don't see how any of the issues I've raised are that of my broadband provider - whom are aware of my problems, and have sent a new router out. They are happy with the testing I have done and due to the noise being on the line when I unplug the router (just the corded phone) have told me to contact BT as unfortunately whilst they can perform some tests I have to contact my landline provider.

 

@Devon_Dave - my first question was rather tongue in cheek, already knowing the answer. I was highlighting the duff information from #151. I am indeed aware that if I damage the outside lline, it's my fault to pay for. I just found it funny that #151 tried to tell me that having line noise, and if the problem was down to the line outside but within my property boundary, and I haven't touched the damned thing, it's still up to me, and that I should just get a local repair man to fix it. Can't have it both ways BT!

 

 

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