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Highlighted
Recognised Expert
292 Views
Message 41 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

It’s easy to find out how much OR charge BT for FTTP access, it’s on their website, and what you will find is that there isn’t any scale depending on the provider, it’s exactly the same price for any provider that wants to use it.....if anyone has any evidence ( paranoia or cynicism don’t count as evidence)  they should contact Ofcom immediately, but don’t you think Sky and TT would be onto of this already , and should any preferential treatment be given to BT by OR , then the regulator would be all over it.

Sky and TT can have access on exactly the same terms as BT, they have never argued differently, although their ‘supporters’ frequently do, they ( currently ) chose not to bother....asking on a BT forum how come Sky and TT don’t bother ( it’s a pretty transparent implication )  is likely to get the reasonable response ‘ask them’

 

As for as Bluejet99, I agree his or her contribution, with regard to setting up a legal body to deal with OR, for example, was informative and may well assist someone investigating CFP in their area, the only area I take issue with is the suggestion that only BT benefit , and that ultimately it’s a BT CFP  process is wrong it is  an Openreach process.

A CFP arrangement is with OR, once the FTTP network is in place, it’s then identical to native FTTP and it is an open network , available to all ISP that want to use it, not some sort of BT / OR stitch up.....if anyone is considering CFP but only if they can have a wide choice of providers , ( or will use anyone apart from BT, or use BT but are resentful as they don’t want to use BT ) then they should lobby Sky and TT etc., it’s not the CFP policy that needs to change, it’s the attitude of Sky and TT towards using it.

Highlighted
Anonymous
Not applicable
280 Views
Message 42 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

Whilst I'm waiting for my account to be deleted.......

Here is the pricing that our 'Recognised Expert' refers to:  https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=M80QNeH46o4g6...

Good luck with working out 'who' is paying 'what' for 'what' under all that !!  Then there is the Managed Install process......Then there is the question as to why the OFCOM broadband checker still shows only Standard Broadband is available in our area - could it be that OR still hasn't told them or the ISPs (other than BT!) yet?  

But even if our 'Recognised Expert' is correct and that there truly IS a level playing field - it would still leave the question as to why HMG is allowing public money through grants and vouchers to go into the pockets of OR under the CFP scheme when only their Group partners - BT - gain any benefit from it?  HMG should have got a commitment from the ISPs - and not just Sky and TalkTalk that our friend seems obsessed with - to offer FTTP from the get-go and before any public money passed to the BT Group (which include OR).

I can only repeat that the current situation - however it has come about - is anti-competitive and works against the interests of consumer choice and best value.  I can only speculate as to why some here seem entirely happy with that!

 

 

 

 

Highlighted
Expert
276 Views
Message 43 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

A couple of points to make here: 

1: Any ISP is able to provide FTTP services to their customers IF they choose to do so.  It is not the sole realm of BT (or the BT Group) to provide FTTP services.

2: Openreach's own website lists FTTP providers - https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fttp-providers

Openreach FTTP.JPG

(Click on the circled arrow to display the list of providers)

 3: Deleting your account and all posts serves nothing, lets just stick to how you got Fibre to the Premises sorted and installed. 

Kind Regards
CJT80
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Highlighted
Anonymous
Not applicable
261 Views
Message 44 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

A couple of points to make here:

1. I know that.  Read my last post once more.

2.  I know that, too.  Name one of them - apart from BT - that is a 'mainstream' broadband provider that would be known by the average consumer.  name one of them that offers the inclusive package typically required by most non-techie consumers - ie landline (not VOIP), router, broadband service, installation - for a fixed monthly fee.  Although TalkTalk is listed - it does not offer FTTP broadband to our FTTP-enabled area.

3.  I am awaiting deletion. The 'recognised expert' is the font of all knowledge.

 

Highlighted
Expert
254 Views
Message 45 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP


@Anonymouswrote:

A couple of points to make here:

1. I know that.  Read my last post once more.

2.  I know that, too.  Name one of them - apart from BT - that is a 'mainstream' broadband provider that would be known by the average consumer.  name one of them that offers the inclusive package typically required by most non-techie consumers - ie landline (not VOIP), router, broadband service, installation - for a fixed monthly fee.  Although TalkTalk is listed - it does not offer FTTP broadband to our FTTP-enabled area.

3.  I am awaiting deletion. The 'recognised expert' is the font of all knowledge.

 


Part 2: and who's responsibility is it for lack of "mainstream" providers providing FTTP?  BT or the Providers?

3: Sarcasm doesn't help. 

Kind Regards
CJT80
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Highlighted
Moderator
Moderator
253 Views
Message 46 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

Hi Everyone, please can we keep it friendly. Thanks

Highlighted
Anonymous
Not applicable
246 Views
Message 47 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

Sure. Just delete my account as I have asked and everyone will be happy in the ‘bubble’ here!

Highlighted
Recognised Expert
242 Views
Message 48 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

Interesting point you raise about HMRC , and allowing BT Group to profit from a tax payer funded scheme , even though Bluejet99 actually benefitted from that, and wouldn’t have FTTP, if it were not for it,  but again it’s only a partial truth, the fact is that the tax payer funded subsidy isn’t limited to OR, if any network provider wanted to build a network to cover those that may be bypassed by a commercial rollout, then they can, the implication that only OR are involved in these government vouchers is incorrect, if other network operators don’t want to take advantage , again than that’s up to them ( perhaps other network operators who don’t have to offer wholesale access are not interested because a condition of the voucher may be that there has to be a choice of providers and a wholesale access system ) if the tax payer is subsiding the build.

I agree the tax payer shouldn’t be paying for local monopolies, and before you shout isn’t that what OR will become, well at least they offer wholesale access on identical terms to anyone who wants it , and the price they can charge is regulated, something no other operator has to do, and there is no compulsion (yet) for OR to cover these areas at all, 
I asked earlier if another network provider had built a FTTP network and that was in effect a local FTTP monopoly would you be happier than the OR one the CFP contributed to ?

Something that hasn’t been mentioned of course is that the CFP didn’t pay the entire cost, just the difference between the actual cost, and the cost OR would pay using their  standard metrics, so for example, if OR can make a margin with an expenditure of £500 per home passed, and this CFP worked out at £750 per home passed , 100 homes were passed to make the maths easy ) then the built cost of £75000 would be split, OR paying £50000 and the CFP paying the difference £25000.

Both Sky and TT are both apparently close to launching service over OR FTTP ( a little late to the party but anyway better late than never ) so when your 24 month contract expires ( and I suspect that given Ofcom stipulate 12 month contracts have to be available it was a choice to sign up to 24 months to reduce the cost) you will by then have the option to switch provider.

Even with copper based service the initial install has a cost, that isn’t necessary on migrations between providers ( so a working line takeover is cheaper than an install ) so your switch to Sky or TT should be ‘free’ , and the monthly cost the only real comparator, personally  think Sky or TT will be cheaper, but not by much.

Anyway, thanks for dropping by, sorry you feel disrespected , or condescended to, you obviously have strong feelings on the subject , others can have a different opinion, I pointed out the relationship the regulator has imposed on BT and OR and the fact that BT are not allowed any favours from OR, you obviously think that’s not the case, but I would urge anyone how can show that there is anything other that an equivalence in the way OR treats its customer ( BT,Sky, TT etc.) to present that evidence to Ofcom.

I don’t speak for ‘BT’ my contribution is as a BT customer and BT shareholder.

Highlighted
Anonymous
Not applicable
219 Views
Message 49 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

I really have nothing to add to what I have said above. 

It cannot be acceptable that HMG has allowed a situation to develop whereby the provider of the only truly national broadband infrastructure is rolling out a FTTP network across the nation - subsidised or not by taxpayers' money - for which there is only one mainstream ISP offering connections that happens to be part of the same group.   

Finally, if you can find me a BT Full Fibre deal that is available anywhere on its current website that has a contract for 12 months, my community would be very grateful to you.  I'm not holding my breath though!

Highlighted
Recognised Expert
206 Views
Message 50 of 51

Re: Experiences with Openreach Community Fibre Partnership for FTTP

I feel this is almost like an argument between a Remainer and Brexitier , it doesn’t matter about evidence, or perceived wisdom, it’s a ‘feeling’ , that somehow BT have subjugated the industry , and the plucky little outsiders ( who have the consumers best interest at heart even though they are  massive company’s ) are not getting a fair deal, it doesn’t matter if what evidence that exists points one way, if that is contrary to your view, you just don’t accept it ( ‘Fake News’ the Orange one would proclaim ) 

If it’s not acceptable that the Government has subsidised a FTTP network when there is only one mainstream provider using it ,and  what’s more it is part of the same group as the network provider , then the logical conclusion is that you should not have had the opportunity to have applied for a CFP, and should still be on your old slow ADSL connection, waiting until now , when these alternate mainstream providers have belatedly shown an interest.

If other mainstream providers rejected the opportunity to participate, do you think that OR ( according to you the only network provider with the ability to provide that national network ) should have barred BT from it to prove it’s independence ? ( that in itself doesn’t guarantee your preferred providers would have then taken part , and then you would then only have had niche providers to chose from) what’s more would it be fair to exclude BT just because Sky and TT declined to participate ?

As I understand it, Ofcom require providers to offer 12 month options , I’ve no idea if ISP’s  have to give equal prominence to them, perhaps you have to call to get them, and anyway, it’s not as though it’s a BT only phenomenon, most other providers , including your preferred providers try to tie customers down to the longest minimum term they can.

I don’t think I have anything more to say (much like you have said a few times )