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Message 1 of 29

Temporary line query

Hi all,

 

Have been a long time BT customer. We have a guest house, which had its own phone line, and around 5 or 6 years ago we were offered internet for this line.

We already have fibre in the house, but the guest house had its own copper phone and broadband connection installed when we were offered it.

 

The guest house would consistently get around 13mbps download speed and between 2-4mbps upload.

It was in regular use as an office, however at the beginning of the year it would intermittently cut out and the internet would switch off, typically in the middle of an important email or conference call.

So we phoned BT to speak to them about this and see if something could be done. We were well aware that it was not possible for this internet connection to be upgraded to fibre, for various reasons, which we have previously ectensively explored.

But on the phone the person at BT customer services, disregarded all of these objections and convinced us that we were simply ill-informed and we could have fibre in the guest house. Furthermore this upgrade would actually bring our overall bill down by £20 per quarter. Brilliant we thought.

 

This seemed odd in the days leading up to the "internet installation" when I asked follow up questions, as BT kept saying there was no fibre modem being installed as part of the work they were planning on doing. But these questions were given vague answers as if the answer would be far too complicated for a mere customer to understand, and so I let them get on believing they had things squared up correctly.

 

Long story short, the job had been actioned by BT as on their system they were looking at the account for the main house, which said there was already fibre broadband available at that property.
BT cut off the copper internet to the guest house, and it's now been three months without internet.

We phoned many times trying to explain this, and it took five phone calls - with many hours on hold - before this error was understood and acknowledged by BT. Furthermore every complaint we open regarding this issue has been systematically closed a day later with nothing being resolved.
By the time they actually understood it was too late. BT came back with all sorts of confusing reasons over the past few months as to why the internet could not be turned back on.
At one point we were told we would not be able to get internet in the guest house unless we registered it as a separate domicile - which seemed completely absurd, as we would then be paying council tax on what is a glorified shed.

After much persistence and of 23.5hours on the phone to BT we eventually managed to get high enough up the ladder to a manager who said they would rectify the issue.

Cut to today, we have just had the internet finally restored, but the internet speed is at a crawl; 2mbps down, 0.08mbps up.

It is too slow to use it for zoom meetings (as when someone needs to have a business call its where we wish to go and use the internet, as the phone line also doesn't interfere with the main house phone line if calls need to be made.)

 

We phoned BT today, and were told they did not know why this was. After another gruelling few hours we were told the issue is that we were on ADSL1 (the hub's log show's we're connected via Modulation:G.992.1(DMT) )
and we needed to be moved onto ADSL2+. We spent another two hours on hold being transfered to the connections department, only to be told connections can't run the (i want to say SLS or SSi test) needed, and we spent another 45 minutes being transfered back to the fault department, only for them to answer the phone with no knowledge of what was going on for us, and to as us what the issue was.

 

Eventually the fault department came back with that the original line is no longer there, a temporary line has had to be installed, and this line can get only a minimum of 1mbps and maximum of 3mbps down.

We have also been told we've been put on a new contract from the day the internet came back up online.
Nobody seems to know if this temporary line is going to be replaced at any point, or if our internet speeds will every get faster than this.

 

A big issue here is not knowing what to ask BT in order to ascertain our position, how to accurately explain what is going on when we phone up, and what can be done from our end to try and get answers.

What we want to know ideally is; if BT took us off the copper broadband, then that copper line has been ripped up, or sold off, then this whole scenario is moot - we may as well give up and start contacting other companies who will be willing to hook the internet back up in exchange for a contract with them.

If the 'temporary line' is going to at some point be made permanent, or if we're on a profile that's slowing our internet speed, that's a different matter - but we're not having much luck getting that information from the helpdesk.

 

Any advice, or suggestions relating to our position would be greatly appreciated.

Hub log: https://pastebin.pl/view/fcd21ed7

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28 REPLIES 28
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Message 2 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

Welcome to the BT residential forum, the business forum is here 

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Message 3 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

How far away from your main residence is this guesthouse/shed ?, how is it served ( does the line from the public road go to your main residence first , then onwards towards this outbuilding , or is the outbuilding served direct from the public road ?
When you state ‘fibre’ is it FTTC or FTTP, if it’s FTTC, then the ‘install’ is the same as ADSL or ADSL2 , there is no ‘fibre modem’ to install, if it’s FTTP, then without a proper ‘address’ it’s understandable that FTTP service won’t be available.
Something does seem odd though, is the number currently provisioned in the guesthouse/shed the same as it used to be when getting 13Mb, if the line was ‘lost’ and reinstalled has it been reinstalled from the same exchange/cab/ DP ( in other words the same physical route used previously to the same exchange ) ?
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Message 4 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

Thank you for the reply.

in answer to your questions, in order:

 

How far away from your main residence is this guesthouse/shed ?

its about 30 meters from the main property.

perhaps 40 meters from the main home Hub.

 

 

how is it served ( does the line from the public road go to your main residence first , then onwards towards this outbuilding , or is the outbuilding served direct from the public road ?

there is a telephone pole on the main road. This feeds across to the main house, and also along to another pole that runs directly to the guest house.

 


When you state ‘fibre’ is it FTTC or FTTP, if it’s FTTC, then the ‘install’ is the same as ADSL or ADSL2 , there is no ‘fibre modem’ to install, if it’s FTTP, then without a proper ‘address’ it’s understandable that FTTP service won’t be available.

im not sure, how would I work this out?

The main house has a grey box I believe buried in the front garden. I remember we needed to bury some cabling for the install. It has a modem mounted on the wall that the Hub connects to; so I would guess FTTP. 

Is there a way for me to check this via the Hub settings?

 

 

Is the number currently provisioned in the guesthouse/shed the same as it used to be when getting 13Mb, if the line was ‘lost’ and reinstalled has it been reinstalled from the same exchange/cab/ DP ( in other words the same physical route used previously to the same exchange ) ?

the telephone number in the guest house remained working throughout this, and the number has remained the same.

 

 

thanks for helping with this. If there’s any further information you need, please let me know.

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Message 5 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

Perhaps you can show the dsl checker return for both property’s ( use the phone numbers as the address is less accurate and the guest house hasn’t got a proper address anyway )

 

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

If the pole that feeds the ‘shed’ is simply a feeder pole from the pole that feeds the main residence then a few 10’s of metres shouldn’t make much difference, if the phone never stopped working but the broadband service is now much worse than it was, I suspect that the shed previously had FTTC ( fibre to the cabinet ) , and somehow when the broadband was lost and subsequently reprovided , it was given ADSL rather than FTTC , swapping from ADSL to ADSL2  isn’t likely to increase speed from 2 to 13Mb, hence I doubt asking to be moved onto ADSL would give much improvement 

The checker should show if FTTC is available, occasionally it’s not available because there are no spare ports in the cabinet rather than an area that has never had FTTC, if the cab is ‘waiting list’ then ADSL may only be temporary until a port becomes spare.

I presume your main residence has FTTC and gets a similar 13Mb speed to what the shed used to get , I doubt you have FTTP given the description of how it was provided, some early FTTC installs got a separate modem , but most now have that built into the router 

 

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Message 6 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

Are you a business user?



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Message 7 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

the main house gets around a 43mbps download speed.
the 13mbps were what we used to get on the guest house's old copper line.

We are not business customers, why do you ask?

Below are the DSL results for the guest house:

Guest House DSL resultsGuest House DSL results

 

Below are the DSL results for the main house:

main house DSL resultmain house DSL result

 

 

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Message 8 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

If the upload speed is between 2 - 4 Meg you've already got Fibre - FTTC. Post your router stats.

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Message 9 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

The main house FTTC  estimate is a lot less than what you say you get ,it actually predicts the same as the ‘shed’ if it were  FTTC , the ‘shed’ actually shows the observed speed for both ADSL and FTTC , so confirming that it  were originally on FTTC and now on exchange based ADSL .

FTTP is also shown as available  , if you have that you will have an ONT ( optical network termination) which has PON and LOS lights on it, and if you do have FTTP and 43Mb then it’s hardly pushing the technology, you must have purchased  ‘essential’ fibre rather than any of the hyper fast speeds you could get with FTTP.


On the face of it, the ‘temporary line’ status of the shed is irrelevant, you should be able to upgrade the ‘shed’ to FTTC  again , (which is what it originally had)  and the speed should be what is was,  the main residence according to the checker would  be a similar speed , over FTTC  , so given  your experience of that line being so much ‘faster’ you probably do have FTTP at the main residence, just at the slowest speed you can buy.

The lines would  both perform similarly if there is only 30-50m difference in the line length if on the same technology.

As already stated , FTTP for the ‘shed’ probably isn’t going to be possible while it doesn’t appear as a proper address, but getting FTTC should be only possible, however a problem could be if BT have a policy of only selling FTTP if both FTTC and FTTP are available in the area, you then have an issue, dodgy address stopping  FTTP , and a policy of only providing FTTP if it’s available , a vicious circle.

An alternative would be a provider that still sells FTTC for the ‘shed’.

FWIW, I would explore upping the main residence to a speed that FTTP is capable of,  and somehow provide your own  broadband ‘link’ between the two, it may cost more initially , but would provide month on month savings

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Message 10 of 29

Re: Temporary line query

@RobbieBaron The upload speed in the guest house is 0.08mbps

it seems to be uploading files at 20kb/s

The stats you’re talking about, is there a paste in link to them in the original post?

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