Re: BT Cloud beta client 21.2.3 - Page 5

henryfm · ‎23-03-2021

Thank you for the clarification of Backup v. Sync

GeoffSmith · ‎23-03-2021

@henryfmwrote:
What still happens with V 21.2.3 is that when I allow syncronisation the old versions of files in BT Cloud Web get copied back to the computer, the new version being marked as a Conflict version. This is NOT how syncronisation should work - it is the latest version that should be retained in the Cloud and made available in the My Documents folder. The BT Cloud software should check the appropriate Modified Date of the versions of the file to determine which to transfer. It's as if someone had the less than and greater than commands confused.

It would be useful to know what your "Sync folder" settings are in Preferences - a screen image would be helpful. Also your Backup settings, if any.

I have never seen a file "marked as a Conflict version" so a screen image of that would also help.

Ideally all the above for both machines.

JTS1 · ‎23-03-2021

@RTLwrote:
@JTS1 You have stated that you deleted some files and then powered Desktop "A" off. Wrong---I powered the laptop off after deleting files on the Sunday evening but the changes weren't obviously done in the Cloud sync file with the result that when I powered up "A" this morning they were still there. Not how a sync file should work in my opinion. Any change like that should trigger an update being done.
As regards the file created and saved on A this morning at 09:33, it had 15 minutes in which to upload it before I switched off. I don't have the time to sit and wait for the updating--I have other things to do and I don't keep my PC's powered on. The minute it was saved there should have been a trigger to get it up to the cloud. And when I came to power the PC off it should have done the changes then or warned me that there was an app still in use with the option to return and cancel the shutdown while it completed. Other apps can do this!
The end result is the Sync folder is not correct. Microsoft OneDrive has no problem.

Sorry RTL, you are right, I did misinterpret the sentences in your earlier posting, but my response still applies.

The BT Cloud client requires time to react to user changes.

If you look at your BT Cloud Logs (on your laptop), you will be able to see how the BT Cloud client attempts to respond to the removal of the files, but then your shutdown will have intervened. When you switched on your Desktop "A" (which has it's own BT Logs), the same process will be re-started by Desktop "A", but only after the pre-checks are completed, hence the reason for the time difference recorded in the Dashboard Recent List.

You will be able to see, from the Desktop "A" BT Cloud Logs, how long the sync process between it and the BT Cloud client has taken (from the time you switched it on).

This will also have to occur on all other repositories that you have with BT Cloud installed on them, as they too are reconnected with the BT Cloud client.

Note: If the repositories have not be active for some time, the pre-checks may have do a catch-up, to include other changes over and above the deletions that you have described.

JTS1

henryfm · ‎24-03-2021

Below an example of how synchronisation should work and now, when it goes in reverse.

The tracker on the right shows that rrr_19.xlsm (dated 2020/02/03) was downloaded from The Cloud superceding the newer version from 2021/01/25, which was given the Conflict epithet. That is incorrect operation.

entries2019.mdb was used on both laptop and this, the PC. First 2 conflict epithets refer to transfer back to the PC after modification on the laptop. This is the correct operation that pertained with the earlier version of BT Cloud. The tracker shows that the old version of 2020/11/29 (created on the PC shortly before BT Cloud first went into abeyance) was downloaded to take priority over the version of 2021/03/15.

BT Cloud Sync is working in reverse and requires repair! As you will see from the Tracker, I've paused sync, for obvious reasons.

Sync folder settings:

As you will see, BT Cloud-1 is the envelope folder - synchronisation has to be from a different folder to Backup (You get an error message if you try to use the same envelope folder). I'm not sure what would happen in BTCloudWeb if both Sync and Backup are set to go as there would be files with the same name from different envelope folders on the same computer. Not active at present, as below:

Note: The folders listed here are in the BT Cloud envelope folder.

Much the same on the laptop, again sync paused. I don't want all the good work I've done recently to get sidelined until I manually work through all my folders to rename files - highly tedious! At least the files are retained (albeit as conflict versions) rather than being deleted.

JTS1 · ‎24-03-2021

@henryfmwrote:
Below an example of how synchronisation should work and now, when it goes in reverse.
The tracker on the right shows that rrr_19.xlsm (dated 2020/02/03) was downloaded from The Cloud superceding the newer version from 2021/01/25, which was given the Conflict epithet. That is incorrect operation.
entries2019.mdb was used on both laptop and this, the PC. First 2 conflict epithets refer to transfer back to the PC after modification on the laptop. This is the correct operation that pertained with the earlier version of BT Cloud. The tracker shows that the old version of 2020/11/29 (created on the PC shortly before BT Cloud first went into abeyance) was downloaded to take priority over the version of 2021/03/15.
BT Cloud Sync is working in reverse and requires repair! As you will see from the Tracker, I've paused sync, for obvious reasons.
Sync folder settings:
As you will see, BT Cloud-1 is the envelope folder - synchronisation has to be from a different folder to Backup (You get an error message if you try to use the same envelope folder). I'm not sure what would happen in BTCloudWeb if both Sync and Backup are set to go as there would be files with the same name from different envelope folders on the same computer. Not active at present, as below:
Note: The folders listed here are in the BT Cloud envelope folder.
Much the same on the laptop, again sync paused. I don't want all the good work I've done recently to get sidelined until I manually work through all my folders to rename files - highly tedious! At least the files are retained (albeit as conflict versions) rather than being deleted.

Henry, just a couple of things, you haven't said which laptop the Preferences are taken from (none of the Backup folders appear ticked), and your interpretation of what you see on the Dashboard Recently Updated list is not correct.

Backup is always set to Upload, I believe that what you are seeing the in the Dashboard is an old version being Downloaded in to Deleted Items. You could look to see what is in your Delete Items.

The correct place to see what is really happening is in "Documents", on the BT Cloud Main Page, where the Original files and their modified and save Versions of it all reside.

Note: Sync is still shown as being Active on the page that you have provided.
Also, no Backup files can be uploaded to the BT Cloud client from you laptop's C:\User\username\BT Cloud. as it is reserved for Sync only.

JTS1

cfpage · ‎24-03-2021

Despite updating to 21.2.3 as soon as it was released BT Cloud Sync is too unreliable to give any confidence that it is working. I added a new folder to my BT Cloud hierarchy on my Windows 10 PC 24 hours ago and it has still not been uploaded to the cloud and hence not downloaded to my other PCs. There is no mention of the directory in the log files. It is only at the fourth level in the hierarchy i.e. G:\BT Cloud\A\B\C where A and B have existed for weeks. OneDrive in contrast uploads immediately. BT Cloud settings under "Sync" are "Enable" and "make all BT Cloud content available on this computer". The whole idea of Sync is to ensure that a secure copy exists in the cloud and the files are replicated to other devices expeditiously.

RTL · ‎24-03-2021

@cfpage

The whole idea of Sync is to ensure that a secure copy exists in the cloud and the files are replicated to other devices expeditiously.

I totally agree and have tried to tell them this for the last few days. As you say OneDrive does it correctly. I can work on a file in my OneDrive local content, save it and then see activity on the System Tray icon as it uploads to the cloud. The changed item is immediately available when I power up another PC.

henryfm · ‎24-03-2021

Henry, just a couple of things, you haven't said which laptop the Preferences are taken from (none of the Backup folders appear ticked), and your interpretation of what you see on the Dashboard Recently Updated list is not correct.

Yes, when I started on getting the new BT Cloud working I assumed I had to set the folders I wanted to sync under Backup and Shared folders. Hence the list in Preferences (from PC). This seemed to be the opinion of a BT help desk member who said I should activate the folders with Upload and Download set. On 2 counts I realise this to be incorrect. First, as mentioned in my post, these folders refer to the BT Cloud envelope folder in my PC (not BT Cloud-1). When I tried to sync this I got an error message saying that you can't sync the backup folders. Second, as you assert in an earlier post, (essentially) all files in the BT Cloud folder will be synced (having set Make all BT Cloud content available...). The change of name to BT Cloud-1 was required to provide a sync source envelope folder (the app suggests BT Cloud(1), but the principle is the name has to be different).

The laptop does not have any folders selected under Backup and Shared preferences either. Just the Sync envelope folder, there BT Cloud(1)

Please explain how my 'interpretation of what you see on the Dashboard Recently Updated list is not correct'

Backup is always set to Upload, I believe that what you are seeing the in the Dashboard is an old version being Downloaded in to Deleted Items. You could look to see what is in your Delete Items.

Backup is set to Upload by default - click on the cogwheel and you can set to Upload and/or Download and set frequency. When I hover over the folder name I see the reference to BT Cloud, not BT Cloud-1.

The Deleted Items folder only has 9 old web-system files, none that downloaded back to the PC or laptop.

The correct place to see what is really happening is in "Documents", on the BT Cloud Main Page, where the Original files and their modified and save Versions of it all reside.

I have looked at the BT Cloud Web page and see some files uploaded from the laptop - which was where I got the app working first. In one folder, the structure with conflict files uploaded is replicated. i.e., the old files have been kept but the new ones have been uploaded with the conflict epithet. At this point I paused sync to prevent further corruption.

The folders on the BT Cloud Web pagehave not been modified since I got going on the PC, the machine I use most often so there would be much more scope for problems. The app was downloading and had not got round to uploading when I paused syncronisation.

Note: Sync is still shown as being Active on the page that you have provided.
Also, no Backup files can be uploaded to the BT Cloud client from you laptop's C:\User\username\BT Cloud. as it is reserved for Sync only.

Sync is shown as Active on Preferences, but is paused in the header of the Recently Updated window.
In principle, I should be able to upload to BT Cloud Web from C:\User\username\BT Cloud as I am syncing from C:\User\username\BT Cloud-1 - I 'm not sure what would happen in BT Cloud Web with duplicate file names.
However, I am not attempting to do so at present, as you can see from the lack of folders ticked.

JTS1 · ‎24-03-2021

@RTLwrote:
@cfpage
The whole idea of Sync is to ensure that a secure copy exists in the cloud and the files are replicated to other devices expeditiously.
I totally agree and have tried to tell them this for the last few days. As you say OneDrive does it correctly. I can work on a file in my OneDrive local content, save it and then see activity on the System Tray icon as it uploads to the cloud. The changed item is immediately available when I power up another PC.

Sync is not as secure as Backup.

Any Synced files can be deleted from any of your repositories, including BT Cloud client, either intentionally, or by accident. Delete the file from one repository, it will be deleted from all.
As you are aware, Sync files also take longer to install on all of your repositories too.

Backup files on the other hand are secure. Backup files upload to the BT Cloud client quickly and are available to be down loaded on any repository immediately, even if you delete it, either intentionally, or by accident, from any, or all of your repositories.
Backup files are only set to Upload, so you would not expect them to automatically Download to your other repositories.

All of this is explained in the BT Cloud User Guide.

JTS1

henryfm · ‎24-03-2021

Backup files on the other hand are secure. Backup files upload to the BT Cloud client quickly and are available to be down loaded on any repository immediately, even if you delete it, either intentionally, or by accident, from any, or all of your repositories.
Backup files are only set to Upload, so you would not expect them to automatically Download to your other repositories.

Interesting idea - use Backup so that the active files get saved securely. When you want them on a different computer, go into BT Cloud Web, select them for download and they should appear on the alternative machine.

You have to be more meticulous than I could manage, I think, to remember when you last used a file and whether it was on Computer A or B. I sometimes have the problem on one computer, not remembering exactly where a file was stored....