Backup, Sync or both?

[JTS1]

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@PaulHeyworthwrote:

So, a quick update from me to confirm what others are saying. I resorted to deleting an entire folder/file structure on the cloud yesterday, deleting the BT cloud data (sync DB etc) on my PC and re-pushing everything to BT Cloud.

I can confirm that of 38GB of 46GB reached the cloud, even though the BT Cloud app believes all the file have synced. What is bizarre is that I can locate folders with missing files easily enough and if I create new local files and folders, these are indeed pushed okay after a few seconds to BT cloud in these folders. So, no idea why BT cloud just seems to miss certain files/folders and there's no exception log I can look at for clues.

So, to conclude the latest version of sync (21.2.8) cannot be trusted, which renders it unfit for purpose and unusable.

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Paul. are you aware of the upload limit of 2GB.  If you have files that exceed this limit, they may not have uploaded.

JTS1 

[rogerdoger]

For a brief moment I actually thought BT Cloud was finally working correctly, on PC1 I saved the two excel files I had been working on and the pop up box showed they had synced, I went to PC2 and the pop up box indicated they had downloaded giving the same time as the upload on PC1, great I thought, at last.
Soon to be disappointed though, I open the excel files now synced to PC2 and they are an old copy, I go to the BT Cloud folder on PC2 and hover over the listings, the image says they are the same date as the originals on the PC1, so BT Cloud folder says they have updated but when you open them they have not, useless. I suspect this is all tied in with conflicted copies showing up, if you have not noticed a file has been updated on PC2 and save it again it is going to conflict with the later copy that was created on PC1.

Back to relying on google drive for guaranteed quick reliable syncing.

[PaulHeyworth]

@JTS1 

I had seen the 2GB limit mooted, but I figured this to be misinformation given I have files stored well over 2GB (see below).  These are files, which were re-pushed yesterday evening too.

The files missing for me are just random, nothing special about the content, or filename composition etc.

[henryfm]

@PaulHeyworth 

It still has potential to create conflicts, even syncing with one PC. The conflicts I'm referring to are the "conflicted copies", which sometimes appear in your folders. I believe this happens when multiple changes to a file occur, while BT Cloud is in the middle of syncing.

In order to get around this, I have built a master repository (file and folder structure), which is replicated (using the excellent free tool freefilesync) to the BT Cloud folder. The BT Cloud folder is of course then synced to BT. However, the trick to solving the issue of "conflicted copies" is that I tell freefilesync to treat the master as such, and if any conflicted copies appear, freefilesync continually corrects the files, until BT cloud has the correct set.

Of course, it's more hassle than it should be, and I certainly don't have to employ such behaviour with OneDrive or GoogleDrive etc. but then they don't give me 1TB as part of my broadband deal.

I can see that conflicts could occur if files change before syncing is complete.

Be clear when it is right for conflicts to be reported.

A file on PC1 is edited, is synced to PC2, is later edited there and is synced back to PC1. Rather than overwrite the old version on PC1, it is retained and marked as a conflict version, the new version from PC2 being the 'active' version. So you have the latest version on PC1, but if something had gone wrong, the old version is still available for retrieval.  The 'conflict ' version is not re-synchronised.  This is how BT Cloud worked until December last year.  Better than other sync apps which would overwrite the old version, I believe.

Unfortunately, the gurus who designed the new super-dupa BT cloud got a .GT. operator confused with  .LT.

Thus, when a file on PC1 is edited, is synced to PC2, is later edited there and is synced back to PC1. The old version on PC1 is retained as the 'active' version and the version copied from PC2 is marked as a conflict version. i.e., not the version that would be listed in 'recent files' of an application. So, to make the new PC2 the active version, you have to rename the file, deleting the reference to conflict. So, that gets synced to PC2,  and back before again being marked as a conflict. So basically, the files you had when you started syncing are set in aspic. If you are syncing, you are not able to update files from the state when you started syncing.

This is understood by many BT Cloud users, the BT Cloud support staff but for some reason not accepted by the gurus who write the BT Cloud app code. I know there were many other problems, e.g. that BT Cloud didn't work at all for several months, but how long does it take to make this simple correction?

So, at present I am only using BT Cloud to sync my main PC (essentially as a backup). Even on that, I got a conflict when I created a photo with the same name as an old one, and the new photo was marked as the conflict version.

We hope for V 22.1.3 when this glaring error is corrected. I sympathise with your dilema; I have a limited number of conflict files incorrectly marked (and use 'Search' in File Manager to find them).  As you imply, BT Cloud is NOT free, we pay for it as part of our monthly fee!!!

[PaulHeyworth]

That's a good explanation of the issue, and for now at least I've worked around this behaviour.   Due to the mistrust I have with the syncing, I've created a local copy of the file/folder structure (using freefilesync), which is then synchronised (as I mentioned earlier in the thread) to my BT cloud folder.  This in turn, should then replicate to BT cloud (via the BT Cloud app) and I've defined this (in freefilesync) as a mirror of my local backup, which is strictly one way. 

It will tide me over this period of mistrust in BT Clouds behaviour in terms of missing/excluding files and it also corrects files wrongly marked as conflicted copies. 

I deleted a number of directories on BT cloud last night (which I could see had missing files), but that deletion hasn't been reflected on my PC.  The sync is fundamentally broken as it stands and this level of scrutiny should not be required.  I shouldn't have to manually reconcile that files/folders have been pushed by the app, it should just work.  I'm having to nurse it through, just to ensure everything arrives and that is just plain broken.

EDIT: I restarted BT Cloud app and it recognised things were out of sync, so started syncing.  Yay, I thought, but now it's stopped again.  

I find resource monitor is a great tool for assessing what BT cloud is doing in the background, because you can see all the disk I/O related to the BT cloud.exe process.  You can see it accessing it's sync db, logging and also each individual file being hit and you can also see network utilisation when it's uploading files.  Unfortunately, even though my BT Cloud copy is currently out of sync, there is no background activity in relation to the BT cloud app to speak of, it thinks "all files are synced".  Go figure.

[JTS1]

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@henryfmwrote:

@PaulHeyworth 

It still has potential to create conflicts, even syncing with one PC. The conflicts I'm referring to are the "conflicted copies", which sometimes appear in your folders. I believe this happens when multiple changes to a file occur, while BT Cloud is in the middle of syncing.

In order to get around this, I have built a master repository (file and folder structure), which is replicated (using the excellent free tool freefilesync) to the BT Cloud folder. The BT Cloud folder is of course then synced to BT. However, the trick to solving the issue of "conflicted copies" is that I tell freefilesync to treat the master as such, and if any conflicted copies appear, freefilesync continually corrects the files, until BT cloud has the correct set.

Of course, it's more hassle than it should be, and I certainly don't have to employ such behaviour with OneDrive or GoogleDrive etc. but then they don't give me 1TB as part of my broadband deal.

I can see that conflicts could occur if files change before syncing is complete.

Be clear when it is right for conflicts to be reported.

A file on PC1 is edited, is synced to PC2, is later edited there and is synced back to PC1. Rather than overwrite the old version on PC1, it is retained and marked as a conflict version, the new version from PC2 being the 'active' version. So you have the latest version on PC1, but if something had gone wrong, the old version is still available for retrieval.  The 'conflict ' version is not re-synchronised.  This is how BT Cloud worked until December last year.  Better than other sync apps which would overwrite the old version, I believe.

Unfortunately, the gurus who designed the new super-dupa BT cloud got a .GT. operator confused with  .LT.

Thus, when a file on PC1 is edited, is synced to PC2, is later edited there and is synced back to PC1. The old version on PC1 is retained as the 'active' version and the version copied from PC2 is marked as a conflict version. i.e., not the version that would be listed in 'recent files' of an application. So, to make the new PC2 the active version, you have to rename the file, deleting the reference to conflict. So, that gets synced to PC2,  and back before again being marked as a conflict. So basically, the files you had when you started syncing are set in aspic. If you are syncing, you are not able to update files from the state when you started syncing.

This is understood by many BT Cloud users, the BT Cloud support staff but for some reason not accepted by the gurus who write the BT Cloud app code. I know there were many other problems, e.g. that BT Cloud didn't work at all for several months, but how long does it take to make this simple correction?

So, at present I am only using BT Cloud to sync my main PC (essentially as a backup). Even on that, I got a conflict when I created a photo with the same name as an old one, and the new photo was marked as the conflict version.

We hope for V 22.1.3 when this glaring error is corrected. I sympathise with your dilema; I have a limited number of conflict files incorrectly marked (and use 'Search' in File Manager to find them).  As you imply, BT Cloud is NOT free, we pay for it as part of our monthly fee!!!

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Henry, is right about the sync files having to be completed. 

The user guide states:
BT Cloud Desktop clients provide direct access to the Cloud through the BT Cloud Folder. You can Search, Browse, View, Edit, Organise, and Delete files. Any file that is copied or dragged to the BT Cloud Folder will be synced to all desktops that have the BT Cloud Desktop client installed. The content is also replicated in the Cloud. If a change is made to the file in any of the synced locations, the update is then synced to all the other locations in real-time.

However, if multiple changes are being made by the user on the source PC (even in unrelated areas), these will be queued until the next sync trigger, either by the user, or the BT Cloud client. 

This is clearly displayed happening in the BT Cloud Logs. 

Until the first sync is complete, other repositories are not able to respond in real time and this becomes more apparent only when it is change on a repository holding an older version of the file.  (until it receives the new sync file, it cannot make changes to it in real time).

JTS1

[PaulHeyworth]

Yes, quite and exactly why I've built my own safeguards to deal with this situation and correct BT sync, when these anomalies occur. On those occasions it incorrectly marks the latest file as a (conflicted copy), my local sync job corrects it.

That said, I have much worse issues right now, in that the sync is entirely broken. I've resorted to deleting a top level directly (c:\user\{username}\BT Cloud\{top level dir}) using the BT sync windows app, and as it stands that remains in place locally. It should have been removed, but it hasn't. It's just not working as intended at all.

It used to work swimmingly for the most part, until it was "upgraded".

[henryfm]

@PaulHeyworth 

Your post shows you clearly know your way round computer systems to be able to come up with a workround. That would have been essential in the 1960's...  BUT that's not how it's meant to be in 2021. We expect to install software that works efficiently and correctly for the newbie (with default settings) as well as the expert (who may use additional features). Upgrading from the old BT Cloud to V21.1.3 was not straightforward (my Sync folder was deemed to be a Backup folder, so I had to create a new folder for syncing), syncing of files that change is far from continuous and syncing mishandles conflicts. This has been going on for nearly 6 months with a wall of silence for the last 2 months. Somewhat regrettable.

[PaulHeyworth]

I totally agree with you @henryfm 

I've tried over and over again to get the BT cloud app to sync a folder structure I have placed on the BT Cloud folder, and it just doesn't work.  My last attempt managed 1.1GB of 33GB, and the app believes it's "all files synced".  This is with a new installation of the app, and I've cleared out all the DB files it stores in AppData/Roaming, so a completely fresh start.  I go through the metadata initialisation, then place a brand new folder in "BT Cloud", which is picked up by the BT App, then it does a fraction of the files below the structure and then stops.  

As it happens, I renewed with BT last year, specifically for the 1TB of cloud storage, at a point last year whereby I already had extensive experience using the old app.  That one worked reasonably well, although not as well as some of the competition such as OneDrive etc.

Now, it doesn't work at all reliably and I'm paying for a service, which I cannot rely on, and BT should be all over this and the messages on these community boards.

I'm amazed they're not all over this trying to help, because they'll simply lose customers.  

[JTS1]

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@PaulHeyworthwrote:

I totally agree with you @henryfm 

I've tried over and over again to get the BT cloud app to sync a folder structure I have placed on the BT Cloud folder, and it just doesn't work.  My last attempt managed 1.1GB of 33GB, and the app believes it's "all files synced".  This is with a new installation of the app, and I've cleared out all the DB files it stores in AppData/Roaming, so a completely fresh start.  I go through the metadata initialisation, then place a brand new folder in "BT Cloud", which is picked up by the BT App, then it does a fraction of the files below the structure and then stops.  

As it happens, I renewed with BT last year, specifically for the 1TB of cloud storage, at a point last year whereby I already had extensive experience using the old app.  That one worked reasonably well, although not as well as some of the competition such as OneDrive etc.

Now, it doesn't work at all reliably and I'm paying for a service, which I cannot rely on, and BT should be all over this and the messages on these community boards.

I'm amazed they're not all over this trying to help, because they'll simply lose customers.  

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Paul, because of the first paragraph in this message, I have solved the mystery of your disappearing folders and files.  I'll discuss how you can resolve it, after dinner, in a private message.

I can tell you that BT are correct in saying that all your files (and Folders) have been synced, so do not change anything until later this afternoon.

JTS1