Using Fibre conduit for external LAN

[mdrayner]

Hi,

I am looking at a way to wire up the LAN in our new house.

The builders have put the ONT in the under stairs cupboard and there are no ethernet cables running anywhere else.

The internal walls are all foil backed and this knackers the wifi signal so I want to wire up the living room and also an external office.

The cupboard has the stairs on one side, the utility on another and in the utility is the consumer unit. The last 2 sides go into the hallway.

The most obvious route for the cable is via the utility to the outside and round... but with the consumer unit being there, there is a lot to avoid and potential interference. The other sides wouldn't really work either as there is no clear path to the outside.

So, my final idea is.. could I use the conduit that brings in the fibre connection to the ONT to also run (2) cat 6 cables to the outside of the house and run round from there? Is it likely to be big enough? or could it cause even more issues?

Thanks

[WSH]

I’m seeing this a lot lately.  Makes you wonder what’s wrong with architects?  Putting an ONT in a cupboard with no way of connecting it to anything else is barking la la land.  I’m just looking at a new retirement flat in Nuneaton.  Quarter of a million, ONT in the utility room, phone extensions, no network cabling!  It’s almost like a car dealer selling a car without a spare wheel.   …Oh, hang on, they are doing that aren’t they.  This country’s going right to hell.

Anyway, on a more helpful note, if you do run the cable outside you want exterior grade cat 6.  In my experience exterior grade is also shielded.  (At least, I’ve never seen any that wasn’t).  This is somewhat thicker than the indoor variety.  Even the unshielded is pretty tolerant of interference at 230V, mind, so long as you keep a couple of inches between them.

[stevebrass]

I would drill another hole for the cat6 cables.  Can't be definitive whether seeing the actual site, but I think getting a cat6 through the same hole as the fibre optic might be tight. Even more so with a plug on the end.

[mdrayner]

Thanks,

I know, its crazy..there are telephone points all over the place that I have zero use for (all via cat 5e by the way) but no network points... The telephone point in the same cupboard as the ONT only seems to have 1 cable so no idea how that is split to all the points otherwise I'd try and repurpose that.

I guess the nuclear option is to get the ONT moved but even then I can't think of a decent place to put it and my router and NAS (that would get wife approval) or to rip up the stairs and go though there.

[WSH]

Couple of points then:

The phone cable is cat 5e.  Interesting.  I would suggest removing the phone sockets and replacing them with RJ45’s but phone extensions are usually daisy chained and this won’t work for IT.  If they’re star wired on the other hand…  Sounds like they’re daisy chained though, as you need a switch to connect the star wiring together.  Cat 5e…interesting choice for phones, however.  Might be worth tapping the builder up as to the how and why that was used?

Secondly, be aware that moving the ONT is not going to be cheap.  Whereas you can just extend copper wires, I’m told no such luck with fibre.  The whole fibre pig-tail back out to the connector in the street needs redoing as the cable has to be fusion spliced and each one is effectively a custom job.  It ain’t a five-minute job, it isn’t going to be cheap and they will charge for it.

[WSH]

Actually, another thought occurs.  Even if it is daisy chained, so long as you only used the one socket would converting it to an RJ45 at each end allow a computer connection?  Anyone out there got an answer to that?  Even if it worked, I suspect the disruption to the wiring at the other sockets would screw it up, but just a thought.

Of course, if the copper phone system is being turned off by 2025 anyway future phone will be VoIP and will have to go through the router anyway, so that phone cabling becomes redundant.

[WSH]

Sorry, this is becoming War and Peace, but what you’ve said intrigues me.

Where is the first phone socket in the daisy chain?

If the first socket is somewhere convenient and the cable is 4 pair cat 5e, then replace the socket in the utility room with an RJ45.  Replace the socket at the end of the first cable run with an RJ45.  Disconnect the rest.

[mdrayner]

I say cat 5e but it wasn't me that looked it was a guy who came to quote (still waiting for this) to do the work for me. He might have actually said cat 5 and I have assumed the e bit. Apparently it is fairly common now to telephone sockets this way.

I am honestly not sure what order the sockets are wired in.. there are 3 downstairs (cupboard, kitchen and living room) and at least 1 upstairs (can't be arsed moving all our furniture to check this out).. I know the one in the cupboard is the start and I know the one in the living room only has 1 cable to it so suspect it is the end of the chain.

I want one of the runs to be to the living room so I suppose I could try this out but I have never made ethernet connectors before so not sure how difficult this would be.

It then still wouldn't help with the outside office as that would need a separate run.. I could put in a switch at the living room and then run to the office from there but in my last house it didn't like daisy chaining switches to do it this way.

[WSH]

Pity, I thought we were on to something.

Cat 5 is only rated to 100Mb/s  Cat 5e is 1000Mb/s, as is Cat 6, although 6 is more tolerant of minor problems.

Shouldn’t be a problem daisy chaining two or three switches.  (Accepted wisdom is no more than five and that’s based on bus network segments, so I’m not sure it applies today).  I’ve never found it to be a problem in the home or industry.

Just in case you weren’t aware, the Ethernet spec says it should be able to go 100m between switches.  Working techies usually limit it to about 85m

I’ll leave you to it then.  Good luck.