Moving home: Fibre to the Premises not available, even though whole street has availability

[iniltous]

What sort of ‘flat’ is this , a house divided into flats , or  a building purpose built as flats/apartments from the outset , if it’s the second option, what ‘size’ , and what configuration is your flat , ,  is it part of a ( relatively speaking ) large development,   or a building containing 4-6 units , does each unit have its ‘front door’ facing directly onto the street , or is there a common entrance that each unit uses  and therefore common areas , such as foyers, stairwells ( or lifts / elevators ) corridors etc …are any of the units in effect ‘above’ other units ( so  ground floor , first floor unit ,  second floor etc ) in which case who is responsible for the ‘roof’ considering the roof doesn’t just keep the weather out of the unit immediately beneath but all the units are reliant on the roof integrity etc .

FWIW , it’s not unusual for a general area to have Openreach FTTP access but any MDU ( multiple dwelling units ) to be excluded from the build , MDU are considered separately , there are the occasional MDU , generally very small MDU’s  that can be  incorporated into the general build , if each unit can be serviced without encroachment on any common area ( where a freeholder , or management company would need to give permission ) , so an example , where a small unit of say 6 units , 3 ground floor , 3 first  floor  each having its own exterior front ( or rear ) entrance, those may be included in the same build as SDU ( single dwelling units ) but anything ‘high rise ‘ and that isn’t just tower blocks but much more modest ( in height ) units are not built at the same time as the surrounding ‘regular’ housing .

If you have already submitted the formwize , then that may get a response ( even if it’s a negative response ) 

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-availability---customer-form

I doubt you will get any other response from OR using another avenue or method. 

[ScarfaceJoker]

Hi,

Thanks for that reply - that is interesting.

So it's a 4 story building with sixteen flats - four to each floor. There is a common entrance but I will have my own rear entrance.

What's puzzling me is the wayleave that's required, according to Openreach - as there's no owner of the building and the factoring company has nothing to do with utilities being installed, what's to stop me as the new owner filling in the wayleave form?

Sorry if I'm sounding like a luddite here - just seems very odd.

[iniltous]

Do the 4 ground floor flats have their own exclusive outside space ( a garden in effect ) if they do , arguably they can be served without requiring anyone but themselves to grant permission, obviously the other 12 flats cannot be served ( if the cable were delivered underground )  without permission from one ground floor flat owner and potentially , if a top floor flat , permission from the three flats below their cable would need to pass over to get to them ( that’s assuming underground service, that transitions to cable on wall ) .

Should service be overhead ( telegraph poles ) then potentially no permission required, if the flat requiring service has an aspect that faces the pole , if the pole was on the opposite side of the building , then permissions may be required again , to  connect to someone else’s flat and then cable around the building, and as a four storey building, once over a standard height, that may have its own issues….generally this not the way flats are served, or underground and then cable on wall for that matter .

The existing copper cabling was probably installed during construction,  from a common point within the building ( like a utility cupboard or area , and copper cables to each flat , installed at ‘first fix ‘ ) so nothing visible after the finished wall surfaces are provided, so no individual permits required at that point , only an agreement with the developer, who’s self interest was to have cabling installed at this time .

Retro fitting  a FTTP network, usually follows a similar pattern ( apart from the cabling cannot be as unobtrusive as the original copper cabling ) , so from a common point within the building , a cable ( but an optical cable ) ran to each unit internally, either surface wired ( along common areas ) or in false ceilings and cable risers to get to upper floors  this is why ( normally ) permits are needed from the freeholder , managing agent or whoever , as someone on the fourth floor ( for arguments sake ) can’t give permission to cable from the ground floor to the fourth floor , also it makes sense to block wire the building in one extended period ( giving all 16 flats FTTP availability ) rather than potentially visiting 16 times , should each flat eventually order FTTP , but over a period of many months or years …. block wiring would leave an optical termination point outside each flat , leaving only a relatively small amount of work should any of the flats order service .

The ownership of your building is not the usual with regard to MDU , but before embarking on work like this OR would need some sort of binding agreement from each flat owner if there isn’t a managing agent or freeholder to grant permission….out of curiosity, presumably there will be some common areas , otherwise how do the fourth floor occupants get to their flats , presumably these common areas have lighting, heating , carpets , decor and are periodically cleaned , decorated etc , who pays for that  ?, I would have thought  you all pay a service charge for the upkeep of areas like this 

[ScarfaceJoker]

Thanks again for the helpful reply. There is a factoring company who look after communal spaces but they don't deal with any utilities.

I'm not in the building yet so this is something I'll need to research more full. My flat will have its own garden space and separate back door entrance alongside a front door in the communal entrance.

I'm not in the building yet so this is something I'll need to research more fully.

I'll update if I make any more progress beforehand. Thanks again for your help. 

[36ULW]

In order for Openreach or any other Alt Net to build Fibre in the MDU they would need to Permission of the MA, be it an individual or Company.

Residents and or their Landlords may own the individual flats but the Building and Land it sits on must belong to someone. That’ll be who Openreach needs to get permission from.

Unfortunately finding said Person/Company can be almost impossible, even for a Company as big as Openreach. For example a lot of the High Density Blocks in larger Cities like London and Birmingham are owned by overseas People/Company’s in places like the UAE. In reality they couldn’t care less about whether the Residents have access to Full Fibre or not, they only own the Land/Building as an Investment or to own as an asset.

[ptrduffy]

@ScarfaceJoker- are you in Scotland by any chance? The situation is a little different here, as there is no leaseholder/freeholder distinction here.

OR will still need a Wayleave if the cable has to cross multiple properties' walls, but that can be provided by the individual owners - you should be able to get the factor to coordinate the process.

[ScarfaceJoker]

I am! It was over the weekend that this crossed my mind as I keep forgetting all the different legal things here.

I'll chat to the factors (who are, in the words of my solicitors, "awful to deal with" but I like a challenge) and see if I can get things moving.

I am bringing the average age in this block down by quite a bit so I imagine there's not been a tremendous amount of appetite for it, but I'll see how far I get.