Two phone lines, full fibre and contradictory information

[Deneb]

Hello, I’m seeking some advice or opinions from more knowledgeable people on our situation as I’m being told contradictory things by different suppliers.

Our property has two BT phone lines with each with different numbers, on different accounts, owned by different people that enter the property in different locations with separate master phone sockets.

One line has no broadband on it and has recently been ported to digital voice.

The other line has an out of contract Plusnet FTTC Broadband service and is still on analogue PSTN.

BT are saying that this second line also now needs to go digital, but apparently once this is done it can no longer take broadband and a landline from different suppliers. Since the landline is rarely used on this line, it seemed to make the most sense to just drop its landline side and switch to a new full fibre FTTP broadband contract with Plusnet. An order was placed, and an appointment made for an Openreach engineer to do the installation.

Unfortunately, this is where the contention arises. Plusnet have told me (in writing) that the full fibre service is arranged and that that the landline on that number will be ceased and that ‘this won’t affect any other line within the property’. BT, on the other hand, have phoned me and have said that activating full fibre on this line will also disconnect the landline on the other line. Clearly, one of them is wrong but I have no way of telling which…

I assume that Openreach would know the answer, but, as far as I can tell, there’s no way of contacting the Openreach engineer ahead of time to check?

Any help gratefully received!

[iniltous]

It seems the BT/Plusnet ‘line’ is SMPF , shared metallic path facility, it  is a legacy and unnecessarily expensive arrangement ( in the order of twice as expensive as both services with a single company would be ) this arrangement cannot be supported in the all IP (internet protocol) world we are moving towards, hence the need to act .
This gives you a choice to make , and time is running out for you to make it  before you get one imposed  , cease both services entirely ( I recon if you do nothing this eventually will be the imposed choice ) join Plusnet exclusively,  or join BT exclusively or join a different single supplier….the issue if Plusnet are the choice is that they don’t supply telephony any longer , so you would join them as broadband only , and not have telephony or use a third party VoIP supplier…

on re-reading  your post you have made a choice , Plusnet for broadband, no telephony.

So far the PN attempts to  convert your SMPF line to broadband only ( moving to FTTP in the process ) with  you assuming this would cease the unwanted BT telephone service , but it is actually ceasing the BT phone number you want to keep , hence the PN order having to be cancelled.

As its PN and their actions generating a ‘sorry you are leaving’  communication on the standalone BT telephone service ( so the wrong  line  )  and as you claim theses are separate accounts with separate account holder names , and the phone numbers are associated correctly to each account , then evidently PN are selecting the wrong ‘line’  when they pick which service to migrate,  providers don’t necessarily use the phone number to identify the ‘line’  into the address ( most addresses  no longer have PSTN number associated ) , basically entering the address will present two options,   it seems they are selecting the wrong one , or the association between phone numbers and accounts is not what you understand it to be if they are using the PSTN number rather that the line ID , so in answer to your question , the problem is entirely a Plusnet one to solve  , the notification messages are automatically generated by the ordering system ….no one within BT is manually making this decision which number has to be ceased , PN select the service the system automatically triggers the existing provider to send the ‘goodbye’ communication.

BTW what price do you pay for your standalone BT telephony line , as you have  broadband from a different provider you are not entitled to the ‘no broadband’ discount that takes the cost down  for a telephone service from around £30 based on PAYG , or £50 based on Unlimited Minutes to around £13 or £25 respectively, if you currently get the discount but are not entitled to it , that may be the issue as it’s highlighted the discount you are not entitled to , although I think this unlikely to be the case , something for you to consider, especially if you do get the reduced fee that you wouldn’t qualify for .

Finally , if FTTP is available , why not simply order a standalone broadband service from PN , once it’s in and working , cease the BT  telephone service associated with the PN FTTC broadband, so you are contacting BT not PN , that will in effect cease both services on the SMPF ‘line’ , putting you in the position you want .

[Deneb]

Thanks very much for your help. 

I realise the current arrangement is in no way cost effective and needs sorting out from a both a technical and monetary point of view. The standalone BT telephony line with the Plusnet broadband on it is around £30 a month, so I don’t think we received a discount we’re not entitled to.

As of right now, the Plusnet FTTP order hasn’t been cancelled and in their written communication they have identified the correct landline number associated with their broadband service, and that I want to cease.

The communication I received from BT wasn’t of the  ‘sorry you’re leaving’ type but instead a ‘you need to do something’ call. When I told them that what I was doing was ordering the full fibre broadband from Plusnet that was when they told me that, contrary to what Plusnet had said, this would cease both landline numbers.

If I understand your last paragraph correctly, then I think that is what I’m trying to do. Do you think it’s possible to have a full fibre broadband service with no telephony on one line and retain the BT telephony digital voice service on the other?

[iniltous]

It may seem pedantic but the phone number isn’t associated with the PN broadband but the PN broadband is associated with the BT phone number , SMPF , the telephone is the primary service the broadband an add on (that’s why ‘back in the day ‘ you couldn’t have broadband as a standalone product ) 

What seems odd is if both installations  are separate, and you elected to use PN to remove the SMPF service , why that would trigger BT on the service that isn’t being altered, the standalone line , which you state has already been converted from PSTN (BTW it’s no been converted to DV (Digital Voice) but a PDPL (pre digital exchange line ) it’s  not DV or PSTN .

As stated , I’d cancel the PN order regarding the SMPF conversion to FTTP , and as it’s PN you want to use , order FTTP directly as a new third service , then rather than using PN as the driver on the SMPF arrangement , use BT to cease the phone number you want removed, the one hosting the PN FTTC broadband, because that era of  broadband service can’t exist without a hosting ‘line’ PN should cease the FTTC broadband automatically as the phone number disappears, leaving your BT PDPL and FTTP from Plusnet (hopefully) 

[Deneb]

Thanks, but I’m afraid I’m struggling to understand the difference between getting BT to cease the SMPF broadband line (and thereby automatically ceasing the current FFTC broadband) and then ordering FFTP from Plusnet, versus having Plusnet do the conversion to FFTP (taking over the line from BT and automatically ceasing the telephony). Don’t they both end up with the same result?

It seems to me that the nub of the problem  is the one raised in your second paragraph. BT are telling me that going to FTTP means that we can no longer take broadband and a landline from different providers, and that it doesn’t matter then there are currently two different lines and two accounts. I think you’re suggesting that it should still (hopefully) be possible?

[iniltous]

It’s definitely possible, although still unnecessarily expensive to have broadband with one provider and a second separate telephone service with BT , but paying full price for that telephony with no discount applied ,

Your  PDPL BT telephone only  service should not be affected by anything you do with the BT/PN  SMPF line but it apparently is being involved somehow , that’s why I suspect it’s PN doing something in error as no notifications should be given to BT about that PDPL , the only notification should be about the SMPF tele number saying it’s to become a regular telephone only service ,  as arguably PN migration of the FTTC broadband to FTTP should actually leave the BT telephone service intact , so eventually get a second BT PDPL telephone service , PN removing the FTTC broadband from the SMPF should leave behind a BT ‘DEL’ direct exchange line’ PSTN service  (as PN can’t cease your BT telephone only you or BT can do that ) and that PSTN needs to also be converted to PDPL  as no ‘new’ PSTN can be allowed   but even that conundrum shouldn’t affect your existing PDPL with BT , yet somehow that line is being affected.

 My  suggestion to approach the SMPF service via BT rather than PN is simply because your preferred option of using PN to do the leg work has already failed.

Asking BT to cease the unwanted telephone number and letting the FTTC PN broadband be ceased  as a consequence (this way around is more usual ) because there won’t be a hosting phone line  (a requirement of SMPF ) seems a reasonable way to proceed , it may also fail , but you won’t know until you try , you already know the attempt to migrate  the PN SMPF broadband to FTTP is having unforeseen consequences regarding the separate other line that has the BT PDPL on it .

Sorry about all the abbreviations, it can be confusing.

[licquorice]

To summarise, it is no longer possible to have broadband and telephony from different suppliers on the same physical line.

There should be absolutely no correlation between your 2 lines, they are totally separate and anything that happens to one should have no effect on the other.

[Deneb]

Thanks very much for your help, the whole situation is all rather confusing - not helped by the family trait to leave things that still work well alone, no matter how sub-optimal they may be!

The Plusnet order hasn’t actually failed (yet). I think the timing of BT’s call was a coincidence rather than something triggered by Plusnet’s actions. 

[garybs29]

If the other line has been changed to digital voice & FTTP installed for it that's the actual issue. Each address can only have 1 ONT & 1 FTTP service

[Deneb]

Thanks, but we currently have no fibre CSP or ONT. The other line was migrated to what BT said was Digital Voice as described here: https://www.bt.com/help/landline/moving-to-dv/dv-landline-only.

I think that iniltous was probably correct when he said it was actually PDPL (pre digital exchange line) although BT didn’t describe it as that in the letters they sent about it.