BT “not entitled” to compensation due to OpenReach mistakes.

[ddaz2011]

Hi, any help with this would be appreciated!

Opened a home move order back on 9th July, Move was “expected to complete” on the 18th but Openreach never booked an appointment apparently, they stated they needed to complete external work and to phone back in a week. before we moved on the 15th i had someone call me from Openreach (on a mobile number) stating “did you still want full fibre as we have installed it in your apartment complex now” amazing i thought! NOPE. Still “not finished”. I called every week, raised NUMEROUS complaints, escalations, the full works and got nowhere, kept being told by openreach to wait and they hadnt finished and the system hadnt been changed to say work was completed so nothing they can do and no appointment to be booked. Baring in mine this whole time we have had no wifi, no phone signal in any room except the lounge and no 4G or 5G in any of these rooms either. We were unable to use our baby monitors. with 2 young kids, me being disabled and my partner was unable to work from home and we could barely watch tv!! numerous times throughout this various engineers had contacted me from openreach stating external work completed and to call again. 4 months later in November my appointment is booked and fibre installed. I was told multiple times by BT i would be entitled to compensation to now be told NOPE, i get credit for my last 4 months bills as obviously i had no wifi and 3 months “good will” of broadband. Takes the absolute P*** that though no fault of my own we have lost out this last 4/5 months and basically a kick in the teeth to show for it after being repeatedly promised “£6.10 a day compensation”.  I have sent photos of work being completed, they seem to have dragged their feet with it, a month between each eternal work and 3 months to update that the work was actually complete and to book an appointment! 

Any advice on how to escalate this? Fuming is an understatement. thanks

[iniltous]

Openreach shouldn’t be contacting you independently of your ISP , with the exception of arranging access , changing dates , contractually any  date Openreach gave you in these circumstances is irrelevant, you have no relationship with them , the only date is what BT give ( and that isn’t necessarily the first date given ) 

Presumably this refers to FTTP ( fibre to the premises ) what’s not clear is if this is ‘new build’ so FTTP was installed as the building was constructed and made ‘available’ even before you moved in ( presumably as the first occupants ) or if this is retro build so a copper network was installed first , and the FTTP installed retrospectively, in retro build cases , if the installation process is 2 stage , then the initial date is advisory, not contractual, only after the connection is built to the flat/apartment wall ( so little work left for the installer on the second visit ) is an appointment offered ( which is contractual  ) 

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

put your  address in here , does it say single stage or KCI2 assure ? 

[ddaz2011]

thanks for the reply, yes im unsure why i received a call personally but i had previously ordered an upgrade to fibre then cancelled as we were moving into another property nearby so perhaps due to this. home move was supposed to be completed 18/07 and then openreach basically put this on indefinite hold thus my appointment was continually “expected” the next week and this changed as the date passed. they are very old flats and bt was already at the property when i moved in but fibre was not yet “connected”. i have photos of all the work externally being completed (5 different occasions) and verbal confirmation from the worker on site and weekly correspondence between me, bt and openreach that they were “waiting for the openreach system to update that work is complete” to get an engineer in for the connection, they acknowledged the connection was ready and fobbed me off for 2+ months waiting for the green light to actually connect me. in the meantime of all this we had 0 wifi or signal in the property which i deem unacceptable as we were still paying our bill. we had at LEAST 5 different visits to the external of the property for fitting and connections with still no information from openreach except to wait again

in regards to your link, where does it say either of those please?

[ddaz2011]

sorry found the last part now, it says single stage. what does this mean?

[iniltous · Accepted solution]

Every statement by Openreach , as far as ready for service dates etc are meaningless to you , as you have no relationship with Openreach, when it comes to any contractual obligation you are only concerned with BT ( or whoever someone uses as their ISP ) , so although the Openreach technicians on the ground , doubtless think they are being helpful giving dates etc , are not being so .

Openreach  are not an ISP , only an ISP can give you ( a consumer) a connection date , obviously that date is based on the ( official  ) dates  Openreach advise the ISP industry that they are accepting orders for the address ( not just BT but every ISP that uses Openreach  ) so the only date that matters is the date BT ( presumably it’s BT you elected to use ) gave you for an installation.

If your address returned a ‘single stage’ installation process , that means only a single visit should be needed as the Openreach network is effectively very close by ( so no digging up roads , new poles etc ) , although they all work for Openreach , there are separate divisions with OR , the network is provided by one division (FND , Fibre Network Delivery ) and the actual connection by an installer ( or contractor working for Openreach ) is SD ( Service Delivery  )  BT are effectively the same as Sky Vodafone or any other ISP , they have no involvement with FND or SD .

If you were given a proper appointment by BT ( ignore anything Openreach said ) and that appointment failed then strictly speaking you are due compensation, that ultimately is paid by OR for saying the network was ready for service if it wasn’t , BT compensate you , Openreach compensate the ISP , BT in your case , however there are exceptions, an example could be , a flat with a separate freeholder, or a rented property  where the person ordering hasn’t got ultimate authority over the address , (the freeholder or landlord needed to give permission ) , often it’s the customers that has to get that permission, if that permission was never obtained, then that removes any compensation obligation,  as you could get a situation where a landlord says to a tenant, order service , get an appointment, I’ll come along and say you don’t have permission to do that , and we’ll split the compensation between us , in that case the ISP simply says , the tenant told us they had permission, if they don’t have permission then  they are in breach of the T&C’s so no compensation is due , obviously this probably isn’t your situation but shows there are exemptions to compensation claims .

The other thing to be aware of , obviously if the ISP or Openreach realise they have messed up and given an unachievable date , they cancel the order so the compensation clock doesn’t tick for months , if the order was cancelled ( by them not you ) compensation is still due but has a set  maximum ( you would have to look this up on the Ofcom site ) , it could be what you have been offered is more generous than this maximum compensation amount if the BT order was cancelled by Openreach .