Openreach Full Fibre Installation

[iniltous]

You have to accept that Openreach is not a charitable organisation and that any installation is ‘limited’ in what OR will cover  , if someone on a mountainside built a house , they wouldn’t get water , electricity or  gas ‘for free’ , they would have to pay for the infrastructure to reach them , it’s the same to a certain extent with OR communications, your situation is a little more complicated as you live in a built up area ,surrounded by other properties that presumably can get FTTP , but the fundamentals still apply .

Openreach only have a obligation to provide services within a reasonable cost ( to them ) they are allowed to ask for any excess construction charges to be covered by the applicant, the alternative would to simply say you cannot have service , ( which is precisely what would happen if you called Virgin, or City Fibre or Zoom or anyone else ) that obligation is based on a service capable of 10Mb , and can include mobile 4G/5G etc, but as you have a copper pair , (although you would prefer FTTP )  , presumably you could have FTTC via that copper pair  and 10Mb or better from that ,so the BT/OR universal service obligation is met .

The limit OR will pay for a ‘line’ ( that actually you already have ) is £3400 anything over that is classed as excess construction, if OR generously say they will use that £3200 figure for FTTP even though you have a copper line ( FTTP isn’t a universal obligation) and the actual costs to get you FTTP are £6000 , OR are still paying more than you , and at probably something like £20 a month or less ( the amount OR receive from the money you pay the ISP ) your installation will take decades before OR get any return on that investment .

If there are  some nearby properties served overhead , and by placing a new telegraph pole somewhere on your ‘land’ it would be possible to connect you that way , it could be a cheaper option, if the costs to provide duct are over £6000 and you are not prepared to pay the excess costs.

[TVM]

Openreach don’t always offer a free full fibre installation. Our tenant placed an order and following an Openreach survey they have been told that they would need to pay £6362(!), which is after the initial £3400 will have been covered by Openreach. The property is in a rural part of North Dorset but only approx 70m from the roadside telegraph pole with the fibre connection. My understanding was that the government, through the BDUK programme,  was going to subsidise the deployment of digital infrastructure in rural areas, but these figures suggest otherwise. What is also disconcerting is that once your existing ISP contract expires (assuming you have copper wire feed into the property from the fibre box - FTTC) you will be forced to go with full fibre installation, because Openreach will not be required to maintain the copper wire system after 2025 or 2026.

[iniltous]

If some happens to be in an area where there is 75% FTTP availability, but they are in the position where excess construction charges would apply to get FTTP installed, although it’s true that on a ‘new’ deal , by either changing provider or agreeing to a new minimum term , that probably would set in motion the process to migrate to FTTP ,  there is a mechanism, should the consumer not agree to the construction costs to provide an emergency restoration of the previous copper pair service , so basically there is no reason why the consumer would be left without any service .

Its not true to state the copper network won’t be maintained after 2025/2026 , December 2025 is the PSTN switch off , there will be many still  on copper pairs after that , it’s just the telephony , if they have it  will be DV ( digital voice ) after December 2025 .

[Ali148]

I am expected to pay £16,000 inc VAT to have fibre installed. Despite the box they need to connect to being on a pole on our driveway. They have come to this price from 82m of hard dig to install ducting and 1m of soft dig. Despite me telling them that as there are grass verges each side of the driveway (which they describe as carriageway) it would actually be 70odd metres of soft dig and around 6m of hard dig to go across the driveway at 2 junctures and they are simply not interested.

As open reach could not tell what order I wanted to go ahead with in the start (despite me confirming by email straight after they queried and also contacting BT guides on 2 separate occasions who kept me on hold ages so they could speak to openreach) they cancelled the order as they didn't know what provider I wanted to go with! This was 1st October 2023. Had 2 subsequent orders since which have both come back with these preposterous charges, despite various BT guides, including the person I placed the order with on chat, and all of the openreach engineers that attended the site all telling me I shouldn't have to pay a thing. We've had the router connecting with the cabling hanging out of the house for around 4 months and 2 lots of spray all over the driveway. Another big hold up was that openreach were sending the permission to works notice to the wrong address! On my last phone call with a BT guide regarding my order when I asked her what would happen with this digital talk thing as I simply can't afford to pay this sort of money for the install she very helpfully replied with well you won't be able to have a phone! With elderly relatives in the house and sketchy mobile signal that's very helpful thank you very much BT! Oh and openreach won't allow me to place further orders unless I pay the charge, that is their final decision on the matter. 

Waiting for the deadlock letter now so I can lodge a complaint with the communications ombudsman. 

[Ali148]

Even now, if I enter my postcode into the BT site looking for broadband deals it states no upfront costs and I can't find any subject to or T&C's anywhere listing there may be extra construction costs. The amount of time I've wasted trying to get the fibre installed has all been for nothing. Neighbours on my road also have extensive driveways which they've all said they didn't have to pay anything to have it installed. When I placed my first order, prior to BT with cuckoo as I didn't want to be tied in to a 24 month contract, they quoted via open reach just under £10,000. Somehow with BT, who I was transparent with from the start and told them what cuckoo wanted to charge me, they always insisted I wouldn't have to pay anything as they are the universal supplier and yet that price increased by £6000 in just over 6 months. I can't imagine cuckoo covering more then the £3400 BT cover. I think that is the biggest annoyance, there is no way the work required would cost that amount. Even if they did have to do 82m of hard dig, how would that amount to nearly £200 per metre? BT guides and openreach engineers all need to be educated on these charges as they should not be telling customers false information. Mind you, the BT website is just as misleading.

[iniltous]

If ECC’s  ( excess construction charges ) are necessary, that’s an Openreach call , the ISP wont necessarily know in advance….obviously if someone is fortunate to live a significant distance from the road , then why should ‘regular’ customers effectively subsidise that expensive installation ? 

In many cases where these costs are deemed appropriate, the landowner can mitigate the costs by undertaking the work within their own curtilage themselves ( then the rate OR charge per metre becomes irrelevant) …if it’s within your wherewithal to either undertake the work yourself, or employ your own contractor, it’s an option to have the duct delivered ( for free ) with details of the depth of cover etc  and you lay the duct from your house wall to the boundary of your property yourself , then the hook up costs are significantly reduced, possibly to nothing .

The odd thing is if you have a pole , unless the pole isn’t fed from another pole , but has an underground cable to it , then why isn’t the pole utilised….if the pole simply is the last part of the copper pair route , and the majority is DIG ( direct in ground ) then it makes sense to make the new FTTP route entirely ducted and do away with the pole .

I’m obviously not aware of your personal circumstances, perhaps you are not wealthy as ( for example) a premiership footballer , living in a mansion set back 1km from the road that  wanted FTTP ,but  it’s not unreasonable to expect someone of those means to contribute towards the costs and not expect to have their expensive installation subsidised by those earning a fraction of what they earn .

If you already have a copper pair service , it’s your choice to elect to have FTTP , if BT have a universal service obligation for telephony, that will work on the existing copper pair ,( even if that’s Digital Voice) if ADSL/FTTC or mobile can provide 10Mb download, then the broadband USO is also satisfied.

Openreach is a business not a charity , you are at liberty to use any network provider you like , if there is only Openreach in your area , and they have to suck up all the expensive installs , charging everyone more than necessary to fund these expensive addresses, then in urban areas where Alt Nets exist, they can easily undercut Openreach prices , that’s an unfair burden on OR 

[Ali148]

For me, it shouldn't matter what someone's personal circumstances are. BT should not allow you to enter your postcode and for them to offer you 5 variations of fibre at varying costs per month with no upfront costs, and no warning or advance notice of there being further costs to you should more works be required. Plus as already stated, I made it clear that I had been quoted £10k from openreach via a different provider and I was reassured when I placed my order that BT would not charge me anything. As it goes, I am a single parent, renting rooms from my elderly parents and the fibre is available on a post on our driveway which we had to give them access to put there. There is already ducting there as we needed electric down at the driveway entrance but openreach won't utilise it. The existing BT internet is not worth having. At every point whether it be a BT guide or openreach engineer (and there have been many, all different and many with different ideas of what works needed to be done, one even included shutting the road which just goes to show how much they know) I have been assured that there will be no cost to me, this is my issue. Had I been informed at any point there would be a cost then I likely wouldn't have even attempted to have it installed. Even when I placed the 3rd order it was under advice from a BT guide that assumed the cost must be wrong. I am employed full time and cannot afford to pay to have these works done, how are retired people or others less fortunate supposed to manage? And then I just get told I won't be able to have a home phone when the new digital voice comes into force. They are incompetent and that is the politest way to put it. Maybe I would consider paying costs if I felt it matched the works required but what option do I have other than to use a provider that utilises openreach?

[waygar]

That sounds like a nightmare. We were advised by the developer no need to drill etc as all set up. I am thinking of cancelling BT altogether and just taking the hit with the termination of my contract for all their services i currently pay for as the level of help is nil.

[waygar]

I just want to transfer my existing BT services over to the new address. The property has just been built and all fibre linked stuff installed, just a case of connecting. Sorry not that tech savvy. I can’t understand why BT can’t just help to make the move.

[iniltous]

The vast majority of installations do not involve excess construction charges, those that do , because the property is situated a significant distance from where the network exists, which is normally in a public area like a telegraph pole ,need to accept that there is a point at which Openreach expect that a contribution needs to be made towards costs , Openreach don’t charge the entire construction amount , if it’s a USO installation, and although no one likes to think they are being excluded on costs grounds , the fact remains  individual properties so remote from the public road on extensive driveways are not likely to be welfare cases , they are most likely to be very expensive properties owned by wealthy people.

The fact is that any ISP , or technician won’t know what the excess construction costs are , or even if they apply until the address is flagged as an unusually expensive address to serve , then an Openreach surveyor needs to assess the address , it’s network requirements etc, normally this is done once , so should an ISP enquire about the address resurveying isn’t needed if the household makes another enquiry with a different provider ….TBH , if your original enquiry with Cuckoo ( whoever they are ) provided a cheaper quote than BT …use them , but where did they obtain their costing from ? and the chances are a random Openreach tech will have no training on what constitutes ECC and the rates used to calculate the cost .

Obviously, no one likes paying more for a service like broadband when most get effectively a free installation, but the work involved in getting service to your address is not equivalent to someone living opposite a telegraph pole where a 15m overhead wire is all that required to connect them , why would you think 70,80, 90m of underground ducting would be provided for the same price .

If you consider the work required isn’t substantial and you could get the work done for less than Openreach are stating , it’s common for Openreach to deliver the stores ( the duct ) for free , and when the customer has had it installed, they advise Openreach who revisit and complete the installation…

Openreach won’t for safety reasons use a duct with electrical cables in them , and TBH , a quote like why won’t they put the cable in the same duct as our electric gates at the end of our 90m driveway hardly creates an image of a poor household