Connecting Digital Voice

[Tim123]

 To be fair, I would suggest that the number of folks that have a corded phone situated where there is no power socket is extremely small.

@licquorice  - I'm sure there are many such homes! My parents' being one: they have no mains power socket near the master telephone socket in the hallway by the front door. 1980s build house, when cordless phones were rare (let alone internet). So their broadband router is plugged into the upstairs extension, which I understand lowers the speed (though it's adequate). If they decided to have full fibre in the future it would no doubt need to go in the hallway, requiring a double mains power socket to be installed there as well as an ONT, making it an even more costly, invasive and unsightly job. I don't think an attic installation would work for them as there is no access into the attic. My late grandparents also didn't have mains power by the master phone socket in their hallway (1970s build house). The only non-telephonic device people tended to use in the hallway in the old days was the vacuum cleaner, which could run off the socket in the nearest room, so there was no need for electricity there.

I believe BT and other providers are now making FTTP mandatory for those who join or re-contract, but it's not suitable or convenient for every property and they shouldn't be forcing this. I understand from an Openreach engineer that the street cabinets and the copper wiring from those to the home aren't going anywhere in the near future, so why the rush?

Back to the original poster @Jans1: my parents will be in the same situation as you when they are switched to Digital Voice. I assume your router is on an extension, simply because there is no mains power socket near the master phone socket, which is the situation at my parents' house.

@licquorice - I take it that, after switchover, my parents will be able to continue having the router upstairs, but with the re-wiring you describe will be able to 'feed' the corded hallway phone (even though it's plugged into the master socket)? Or would that cause some kind of overload on the master socket? I certainly wouldn't feel confident doing it for them and would have to hire a local engineer (disgraceful that providers won't contract Openreach to do this, even for difficult cases).

[imjolly]

if you decide the simple rewire to get extensions working then the method is described in this thread

https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-Staging/Correct-way-to-enable-all-BT-sockets-after-Digital-Voice...

[licquorice]

For many years now your internal wiring has been your responsibility, not the provider's, not sure why you think that should change. 

With your router connected to an extension socket, voice re-injection is slightly more complicated but a simple matter for any ex BT/Openreach person to perform.

Why does the phone need to be in the hall in any case.

[iniltous]

@Tim123 

As a frequent visitor and contributor to this forum , you already know that there is absolutely no reason that the ONT for customers changing from copper pair service  needs to be where the existing master socket is located, so your ‘no power sockets nearby’ argument is redundant.

FTTP  isn’t compulsory yet anyway so in your case not even an issue .

Openreach incentivising ISP’s to get their customers off the copper network and onto FTTP when it’s available is a perfectly reasonable commercial decision, why should they continue to operate two networks with the unnecessary costs of doing so ? , joining or re-contracting with BT  is a perfect opportunity to move as there is a financial penalty for staying put on an ‘out of contract’ basis , but if it’s just too ‘complicated’ to take FTTP at this juncture , no one is currently forced off FTTC or ADSL  , but it smacks of entitlement to expect the best deals as well , don’t expect to rewarded for your intransigence , want to stay on the old network for frankly inconsequential reasons comes with a cost .

As far as your parents desire to stand / sit in the hallway to make or receive a telephone call after migration to DV , while remaining on FTTC , with  the router is connected to an extension socket somewhere else ,  if they want to continue using the same corded phone in the hallway that doesn’t have a power outlet to make a DV adapter a viable solution, that is not their providers or Openreach’s problem, if they don’t want to use the much simpler solutions available like DECT cordless telephones ,then rewiring the hallway socket to be an  extension socket from the router telephone port is their responsibility, as far as providers not contracting Openreach to do this , the likely fee ( as there no reason why Openreach should provide this service for free ) would be in the £150-£200 range …the average DIYer could do this work themselves, or a local ‘handyman/women’ , if the work is beyond the skill set of the customer, would likely be much less , why offer a service with little or no take up ?

[WSH]

Just out of curiosity, if the existing extensions were disconnected from the master socket and then connected to a DV adapter does anybody know if that would serve to reconnect the extensions?

[chrisjp]

"...but I don’t have a power socket anywhere nearby."

Phones located in the hall were the norm for many years when houses typically had just the one phone, and the BT standard was to put the master (in those days the only) socket in the hall.
That was my situation when I was converted to DV (though I had wired up a couple of extensions as well) and there was no power socket near the master socket.
But I realised that I didn't really need a phone in the hall and it was much more convenient having it near the hub in my main workspace.
So I wonder if you could re-think your arrangements so that your main or only phone is located near your hub, or is at least located near a power socket so you can use the adapter?

[iniltous]

@WSH 

A DV adapter is mains powered so in the OP hallway scenario would be of no use , as it’s a DECT transceiver the idea is that no extension wiring is needed , just plug the corded phone into the adapter and the adapter into the mains , but in the OP’s scenario, provided the extension cable and extension socket for the router is wired from the master socket with a multi pair cable , then with a little ingenuity and some cheap parts the same cable (but different pairs within it ) could carry the both the DSL signal from master socket to extension socket and a separate pair in the cable run the corded telephone  from the router to the master socket , all that’s needed is isolation between them , searching voice re-injection  should provide the information to do this successfully, it’s certainly within the scope of an average DIYer .

[WSH]

@iniltous 

Thanks for that but it was actually a separate question.  I was just curious if anybody had actually tried it.

(Apologies to @Jans1 as I'm hijacking the thread a little bit). 

[Tim123]

Thanks, I already knew about the rewiring method but wasn't sure if it has to be done from the master socket or if it can be done from an extension instead (if that's where the router is). That was my question and I should have made it clear.

Of course I realise that extension wiring has always been the property owner's responsibility. I never said that Openreach should do it for free, but if a customer is willing to pay through the nose for a professional with all the right tools and knowledge to do it properly then why should Openreach turn down the business? Well, I guess they wouldn't, but for the fact that they have no direct contact with consumers. BT would happily fit/adjust extensions in the past for a handsome fee, but I suppose that was in the days when they had a monopoly and kept every penny. The middleman option of them having to get Openreach to do the work means there's no money in it for them, I guess. So with the provider acting as a 'gatekeeper' to Openreach's services, there's no chance of anything other than 'essential' work being done. The joys of the free market system!

I understand that if extension rewiring for Digital Voice isn't done properly it can cause problems outside the customer's premises, which I'm sure is the last thing BT or Openreach want. Better for them to do the work, I'd have thought, rather than customers who can't find a competent independent engineer near them attempting to mess about with it themselves. The video tutorials I've seen for doing this are confusing, because everyone's set-up is different.

As to why keep a phone in the hallway, why not? The house was built with small dedicated shelving for the phone and phone books underneath, by the front door and on the upstairs landing. It's not big enough to be used for anything else.

[licquorice]

Seems a bizarre and uncomfortable location to hold a phone conversation rather than sitting in comfort in the lounge, but each to his own.

At the end of the day, as long as 2 wires are connected to the router and 2 other wires are connected to the phone sockets with no connection between the 2 sets of wires, it doesn't matter how you achieve it.

It would be far, far simpler to just take advantage of the free DV adapter and site the phone elsewhere.