Toob telling us Openreach are phasing out using underground cables. Doesnt make sense

[dmacsee]

Hi All,

Toob are installing in our area and are trying to insist on placing new telegraphy poles along our street.  There are currently no telegraph poles on the street and as its a twisty street on a hill, there has to be 'alot' of poles installed to do what Toob need to do.

We (residents of the street) successfully prevented Toob from installing a year ago - advising them to use the existing underground infrastructure (which BT and Virgin use).

Toob are now back trying again to install new telegraph poles telling is that BT / Openreach are phasing out use of their underground ducts.   That seems like b/s to me. I realise Openreach are phasing out copper and replacing eventually with FTTP - but is there any reason why Openreach would move away from using existing ducts and install telegraph poles for FTTP?

I think Toob are not being honest with facts - but why would Toob prefer to install telegraph poles instead of using existing underground infrastructure?

[licquorice]

Toob are talking absolute nonsense

[JonUK]

Total BS.

Trying their luck as it costs less to put in a network via poles than it does via UG. (digging/reinstatement costs)

[iniltous]

Toob could if the wanted ( and may already do so in various anyway ) use Openreach ducts , joint boxes and poles under PIA , it’s not the same with Virgin Media, no one apart  from Virgin are allowed to use Virgin ducts and footway boxes , they are not obligated to allow it , so no surprise, they don’t .

If Toob are installing their own poles in an area that is currently served underground there are a few possibilities, one is they don’t want to pay the PIA access charges ( even though it’s a peppercorn fee ) , but it’s more likely the area may have underground cables , but ( especially if the housing was built in the 60’s through to the late 80’s ) these cables are not all in ducts  , they are direct in the ground , especially the individual cables to each property, so if Toob were to keep their network underground, they would have to install their own ducts to each property ,  this is very expensive, a pole can service lots of addresses a lot cheaper, so it’s a no brainier from a cost point of view .

Openreach cannot not go down this route , ( put up poles  in an underground area ) without extensive consultation with residents and the local authority, and generally don’t try to do this , but other network providers seem to play by their  own rules .

[infinitywaiter]

Toob like to take this method to save costs as already mentioned last year and many times since.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/toobs-broadband-poles-cause-annoyance-in-surrey-uk-aga...

There is nothing stopping them using existing ducts, if BT and Virgin can use in your area, then Toob should be too.

They could tell you that Virgin won't let them have access to theirs or Openreach/BT ducts are not suitable, which may be true or a way to cut a lot of costs.

My reckoning here is that they simply want to put up poles instead of doing anything else, as a way of cost cutting, hence why they use their pole excuse regularly.

Just a coincidence that the Toob management, Nick Parbutt (CEO) and Mike Banwell (CFO) who previously led Vodafone's UK FTTP and mobile operations and strategy, don't want to use Openreach/BT/Virgin existing equipment and prefer to install their own pole network.

I wonder what discounts they got on the suppliers of the poles to want to keep promoting that method lol

[36ULW]

If the existing Infrastructure is DIG, Direct in Ground and Openreach currently have no plans to put in Duct for their FTTP Build then TOOB would have no choice but to overlay with their own Duct, or is this instance put up Poles. 

VM most likely have a Duct Network but that was mostly built with Private Investment Money so they’re not obliged to open up their Network to PIA like Openreach are.

Unfortunately Telecoms Providers are well within their rights to put up Poles where they want within reason and as long as it’s on Public Land.

Thing is TOOB are not bound by PIA either and it’ll be exclusively their Network so if the likes of CityFibre, Upp, Swish, etc come along, witch they eventually will they’ll also build their own Networks.