Technical help needed - unclear if upstream or downstream of me

[smirge1]

Hi guys. At my wits' end, I really hope someone here can help. 

This location has no fibre capacity in the cab so I opened a new ADSL line with BT about 2 months ago. I've been experiencing slow speeds and drop-outs intermittently ever since, usually with the line slowing from max 18-19mbps down to 0.2-0.5mbps. Sometimes this leads to the connection restarting and flashing pink, then orange and eventually blue - other times bandwidth just becomes unusably slow for a while before recovering. This affects everything from using VPN to WFH to watching TV in the evening.

I rang BT when this began whose guides told me they couldn't even see the router, which was an older model of Smart Hub (for some reason) and would send an engineer to have a look. He duly arrived and replaced the router with a Smart Hub 2, and told me this should sort it. It did not.

I told BT, who then instructed Openreach engineer #1 to come round. He tested the line, told me everything seemed fine to him, and replaced the DSL filter on the wall socket with a newer faceplate then off he went. No change.

I told BT, who then sent a second engineer, who had a more thorough look and saw the cable connecting me to the cab appeared to be an old one and was hanging off the side of the building. He mentioned it was actually an interior cable, not an external one, and told me it would need replacing. This would be what was causing my drop-outs, I was told.

I told BT, who sent Openreach back again. Engineer #2, following a fair amount of negotiation between myself and the landlord/building owner, gained permission to replace this cable with a new internal run. This should solve the problem, I was told. It did not.

I told BT, who have since escalated it with Openreach and sent a senior engineer and patch lead round yesterday to do a more thorough check. This time they found some loose wiring in the electrical cabinet in the porch of the building and said this could be causing the problem. They crimped them on tightly and told me to monitor the problem. I hoped the problem would go away. It did not.

As of this morning I'm waiting for them to come back and have a further look upstream between the building and the cab / exchange, but I'm trying to eliminate all possibilities along the way. I've become quite familiar with the router logs over the last few weeks. What I've been seeing most frequently are WAN issues suggesting Openreach carrier issues:

12:18:49	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]
12:18:47	05 Feb. DSL Link Down: duration was 119 seconds
12:17:00	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
12:16:59	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
12:16:56	05 Feb. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=22802kbps
12:16:55	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:16:55	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast prefix / length: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::/56
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast address allocated: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::1/64
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: BOUND
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:16:54	05 Feb. Success - secondary DNS servers
12:16:54	05 Feb. Success - primary DNS servers
12:16:54	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 connected
12:16:53	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: INIT
12:16:48	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
12:16:48	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
12:14:20	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:14:20	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:14:19	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:14:19	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:14:19	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]
12:14:17	05 Feb. DSL Link Down: duration was 240 seconds
12:10:31	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
12:10:30	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
12:10:28	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:10:26	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:10:25	05 Feb. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=22798kbps
12:10:24	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast prefix / length: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::/56
12:10:24	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast address allocated: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::1/64
12:10:24	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: BOUND
12:10:24	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: INIT
12:10:23	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:10:23	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:10:23	05 Feb. Success - secondary DNS servers
12:10:23	05 Feb. Success - primary DNS servers
12:10:23	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 connected
12:10:18	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
12:10:17	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
12:08:10	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:08:10	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:08:09	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
12:08:08	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
12:08:08	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]
12:08:07	05 Feb. DSL Link Down: duration was 2232 seconds
11:31:15	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
11:31:13	05 Feb. LTE Modem owl_tx_lte_set_rate_shaper_script command sent
11:31:11	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
11:31:08	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
11:31:07	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast prefix / length: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::/56
11:31:07	05 Feb. WAN IPv6 Global unicast address allocated: 2a00:23c4:4b93:7600::1/64
11:31:07	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: BOUND
11:31:06	05 Feb. WAN DHCPv6 events: INIT
11:31:06	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
11:31:06	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
11:31:06	05 Feb. Success - secondary DNS servers
11:31:06	05 Feb. Success - primary DNS servers
11:31:06	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 connected
11:31:03	05 Feb. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=22873kbps
11:30:55	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
11:30:55	05 Feb. WAN Auto-sensing detected port DSL WAN
11:28:53	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
11:28:52	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
11:28:51	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Complete
11:28:51	05 Feb. WAN Sensing Auto sensing Running
11:28:50	05 Feb. WAN connection WAN3_INTERNET_ATM_0_38 disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]
11:28:49	05 Feb. DSL Link Down: duration was 3207 seconds

Some other forum threads I found elsewhere suggested this can be due to power supply issues to the exchange/cab causing flakey QoS on the line. I put this to them yesterday, but they said it wouldn't be the case.

What's odd though is, this morning when it dropped out most recently, I am no longer seeing these errors in the log. The router was flashing orange for a good 25 minutes from 8.30-8.55 this morning, the broadband not available, but I couldn't immediately see evidence of any errors in the log. 

Nonetheless, would someone here be kind enough to take a look at them, and let me know what I need to show (given there's a lot of it, I haven't pasted in everything yet)?

Thanks so much. This is so stressful 😞 

[imjolly]

as adsl if you go to hub manager then advanced setting then technical log information is FTTP mode switch off.  are you using ethernet port 4 on hub?

[smirge1]

Hi there and thanks for the response. Apologies for not spotting there was a separate sub forum for ADSL.

FTTP mode is on, should I assume this should be set to off? 

I'm not using any Ethernet ports on the Hub. The only time Ethernet has been connected was to get my Sonos setup up and running, but that now runs over wifi on static IPs. 

[imjolly]

if on ADSL then turn off FTTP but only cause problem if you try and use ethernet port 4 which doubles as LAN/WAN

[smirge1]

Okay, I will try that. Thank you.

Is there any more detail on why FTTP mode could be causing this, so I can feed this back to Openreach when they visit again today? 

[imjolly]

I don't see the FTTP switch is causing problems if you are not using the ethernet ports

[smirge1]

Sorry, what I meant was, is the FTTP being on potentially causing the slow speeds / drop-outs and is it possible to obtain any detail as to why that may be happening? Thank you. 

[Edinburgh-wg]

Sorry to hear that. We had a similar situation with Openreach engineers at the start of the pandemic. In the end, we had 25+ Openreach visits (always blaming our WiFi and changing sockets/filters for an nth time). We filed two complaints with CEO of Openreach (it's not that easy), after a deadlock letter with Plusnet and simply running out of options. 

It might be that there's some kind of high resistant fault somewhere and that fixing it will be too expensive (replacing lots of cable, digging etc.) I don't think you'll ever know because Openreach are like a sect. So, they will test the line and as long as it's within parameters (it doesn't mean all fine), then they just leave it. With FTTP coming, I sometimes think they've given up altogether on ADSL and VDSL. 

Your options: 

If things don't improve, 

- try with ADSLNation filter connected to the back of the master socket (available still on the Tandy Online shop)

- get a different router (for example Zyxel 8924 - exactly this model because it has an internal filter in it) and test the line

- be persistent until you get to the stage where you'll be so scunnert that it'll force you to raise a CEO complaint (then, you need to raise the complaint about a person, rather than the service, as they'll reject it) 

There's also another couple of alternatives (if things don't improve within a month or so):

- get starlink and use satellite internet - this will save you a lot of hassle long term

- get a mobile broadband connection and rely on it, which is what we wish we had done, rather than flight with Openreach for 2 years (yes!), as they're unaccountable essentially 

Of course, your situation is different from ours, where we had a number of multiple issues (all on Openreach's network) that took the Chief Engineers Office and multiple visits to rectify (and still not fully, because there was still SHINE on the line)

How in this country it's possible to get to such a situation where there's one company (Openreach, not BT, as both are two separate companies now) that can get away with so much is beyond my belief. I truly find it  extraordinary. 

Good luck!

[Edinburgh-wg]

> Sorry, what I meant was, is the FTTP being on potentially causing the slow speeds / drop-outs and is it possible to

> obtain any detail as to why that may be happening? Thank you. 

This is not possible, as the two are two different technologies. ADSL uses copper, whereas FTTP uses laser/light. (If that's what you mean by fibre, as fibre is the term loosely used to refer to FTTC and FTTP; FTTC, however, uses copper, and if there's an issue on the line, it'll affect the service, too.)

I think in your case because there is FTTP, no manager in your local exchange will be willing to fix DSL which is essentially heading to be retired. It's just not cost effective. It's like getting a very expensive part to fix a 20 or 30 year old fridge.  

Your bet is to wait for them to increase capacity at the cabinet/pole, but when this will happen is anyone's guess. 

[smirge1]

Thank you for the kind words and commiserations. As someone who's happily been on BT Fibre for a great many years and recently been forced back to ADSL after moving, this has come as a gut punch. I didn't think these sort of issues happened anymore. I am like a dog with a bone with this stuff, but it's really taking it out of me. Not being able to relax on a weekend evening because your Smart TV can no longer stream is horrible. 

It's hard to escape the suspicion there is a known issue which Openreach are trying to avoid. What's especially frustrating is every single time they come, BT assume the fault is resolved and close it, which means I have to ring them up and reopen it. It's >20 hours on the phone to them so far trying to resolve this. 

We've had a new socket, new internal line, new router, cabling checks up to the entrance to the building and now it seems the route to the cab and exchange are the last, messy points of failure to check. The bandwidth is actually very good for copper, when it works, maxing out about 20mbps. 

I am changing FTTP mode to 'off' first to see if this fixes things but I would also very much welcome some clarity over the impact / risk of this being set to 'on' for ADSL connections. Or to put it another way, if this is just a punt then I'd rather not give Openreach the chance to give up on the situation. 

Edit - I think I've now made sense of the fact that FTTP mode would *only* be a problem if I was using port 4. So, back to the drawing board.