Re: Digital voice and power cuts. - Page 4

garybs29 · ‎23-05-2021

I'm going to say it one last time, the info I posted was from an Ofcom document. No matter how much you don't want to accept it BT are clearly doing all that they want to enable them to proceed with the rollout

Stevek1311 · ‎23-05-2021

And the information I posted was from the rules as laid down by OfCom as empowered to make such rules as law under the Communication Act 2003 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/contents

Andy005 · ‎23-05-2021

@Stevek1311 One problem here is that it's likely that none of us are sufficiently informed on the subject to fully understand what Ofcom legally require and/or what BT et al must do. In one of your Ofcom links it states:

3.73 .....We do not consider that providers need to offer protection to all customers and instead our guidance
permits providers to take a targeted approach and only supply a solution to those
customers that are identified to be at risk due to their reliance on a landline.
3.74 For those judged to be at risk, we consider that providers should offer a solution ensuring a
minimum of one hour’s access to the emergency organisations in a power cut.

There's a lot of use of words such as 'guidance' and 'should', but as I said in my original post BT will most likely fall down on the 'targeted approach' in identifying those customers reliant on a landline, rather than not wanting to follow Ofcom's guidance on what they need to offer.

Ofcom then go on to say:

3.126 We consider that all landline customers that do not have an alternative means of
contacting emergency organisations in a power outage at the home should be offered a
solution that allows them to do so. Individuals that live in mobile not-spots will have no
alternative means of contacting the emergency services during a power outage and
therefore we consider that they should be eligible for a free protection solution.

To me, that suggests that they are contradicting themselves as they are now saying 'all' whereas above the onus was on the supplier to define those at risk. As I said though, I'm not sufficiently informed on the subject and I doubt that I would be if I spent next week reading all of the documents. I don't have the overall knowledge nor the context so taken snippets from documents isn't going to help us much I think.

Stevek1311 · ‎23-05-2021

I'll let BT take OfCom to court then. But meantime BT have no excuse for not reading and complying with the published General Conditions of Entitlement nor for issuing a letter to subscribers saying 'Things you need to know about your Switch Over Day' and then carefully fail to mention this issue.

Stevek1311 · ‎07-09-2021

An update from my pursuit of this issue

Ofcom have basically told me they think it's OK for BT to disregard what OfCom published as long as the householder has a mobile phone.

BT have however twice delayed my changeover after finally admitting:

a) BT didn't have the power cut covering UPS available (they now have them)

b) BT had no idea what the performance of the Digital Voice Adapter was (key factors being what REN it could support and what distance from the hub it will work at) They later said they think one DVA can support a REN of 5

c) BT admitted that Open Reach have been doing some very dumb installations of FTTP that are very unsuitable for Digital Voice

So I'm now in limbo while they arrange for Open Reach to do a site review. I can see this runnng on til the end of my current contract with BT at which point they could legally and morally do what they like.

I really fear for how this is going to work for the elderly many of whom have no mobile phones nor understanding of how the complexities of this change will map to their lives.

FTT · ‎08-09-2021

I use a UPS for my FTTP kit and router which makes me feel a bit happier. I use my landline for everything (my mobile diverts to it when at home).

I keep reading they're cutting off copper etc by 2025 or something daft I just can't see that happening. Are they going to break into people's houses? You can't do it with so-called Smart Meters so there's going to be a lot of people who just don't reply or say no. I can just imagine the headlines about it in the rag The Daily Mail (they turned themselves inside out over the TV licence).

Maybe they could start advertising FTTP as Smart Digital? That might work 🙂

Either way BT or whomever supplies the FTTP should supply some simple and cheap backup facility (as they did before with the older Huawei kit) as standard.

licquorice · ‎08-09-2021

@FTT wrote:

I keep reading they're cutting off copper etc by 2025 or something daft I just can't see that happening. Are they going to break into people's houses? You can't do it with so-called Smart Meters so there's going to be a lot of people who just don't reply or say no.

In which case there will be a lot of people without phone service.

It will happen, possibly not by 2025 but it will happen.

Having to dial your own calls rather than just picking up the phone and speaking to an operator happened, the analogue TV switch off happened, so will this.

Keith_Beddoe · ‎08-09-2021

@FTT wrote:

I keep reading they're cutting off copper etc by 2025 or something daft

Its the analogue phone network that is being withdrawn, not the copper lines. Copper is needed to deliver both FTTC and ADSL broadband, and that is going to remain. Also some business private circuits use copper wideband serving section (CWSS).

Stevek1311 · ‎08-09-2021

@licquoricewrote:
@FTTwrote:
I keep reading they're cutting off copper etc by 2025 or something daft I just can't see that happening. Are they going to break into people's houses? You can't do it with so-called Smart Meters so there's going to be a lot of people who just don't reply or say no.
In which case there will be a lot of people without phone service.
It will happen, possibly not by 2025 but it will happen.
Having to dial your own calls rather than just picking up the phone and speaking to an operator happened, the analogue TV switch off happened, so will this.

Ah but the promised Analogue Radio switch off (by 2015 IIRC) did not happen, neither did Vinyl records dissapear and we still buy milk and beer in pints.

Also never underestimate the tendency of politicians to interfere if they suspect this might upset a lot of their voters. And once they move from the low hanging fruit of FTTP mobile phone owning customers to more elderly subscribers that's exactly who they'll be cutting off more and more.

Just saying like.

globe1nh · ‎06-11-2021

I'm a bit late to this discussion; only just got notified that I'm being switched to Digital Voice. Avoiding the various discussions over whether or not BT should be providing free UPSs to users, I have always had a UPS for my BT Smart Hub2 because I have a DECT 'phone system (BT's Synergy 5500) and in the event of a power cut it doesn't work. We're also in a localised mobile network dead zone, so I lose Wi-Fi calling. The UPS I'm using is a "Power Inspired" 12Vdc Router (UPS) Uninterruptible Power Supply; essentially it's a standard power adapter with a built-in Li-ion batttery and comes with a range of tips that suit most devices - there is a tip that fits the Smart Hub 2. I get around 30-40 minutes of HUB operation from this UPS- more than enough to cover short outages and maintain Wi-Fi calling. I also have a larger UPS for my Mac, NAS and Ethernet switches, and I'm pretty sure it's got enough spare capacity to add a DV adapter and my DECT base station - It's primarily there to allow the Mac and NAS to go into an automatic save and shut down routine, which only takes 4-5 minutes at most.