Moving to BT Fibre

[locknut]

I'm migrating to BT Fibre 2 on 24th June, everything seems to be going smoothly so far. The only concern I have is that I have heard nothing from my old ADSL ISP. Landline and ISP are currently supplied by seperate companies, and I heard from the landline supplier on the same day as I placed the BT order, and the "Sorry you are leaving" letter followed shortly after.

I understand that the procedure should be automatic, but what exactly is the process by which the old ISP is notified of the switch?  From what I have read,  the system should automatically notify them and start the notice period (which I believe is 30 days). If they argue that they have not been notified, can that be proven?

Should I contact them to make sure they know what's happening? I have held back, as I don't want to confuse matters in case they decide to put a cease order on the service.

Paul

[iniltous]

Your current set up ( separate line rental and broadband company’s ) is a SMPF ( shared metallic path facility ) and is not very common these days , strictly speaking , ADSL broadband cannot exist without a hosting line, so the fact that the line rental provider has acknowledged the migration, by default the broadband will also cease.

With a ‘normal’ migration it’s not  a good idea to call the company you are leaving as it may mess up the migration, but in your case calling the ISP and checking that they are aware of your intentions cannot hurt, TBH the only potential problem I would foresee is how much notice has to be served (14 days or 30 days ) and if any ETC apply, line rental as a migration 10-14 days , separate ADSL company may interpret the rules as a 30 day notice required  , so may ‘fine’ you the difference as an ETC.
There was a post on this forum a little while ago , another SMPF customer like yourself , and if I remember correctly, questioning the migration process when three company’s were involved, you could try searching for that post, I think they got two notifications, but cannot be sure

[locknut]

Thanks for the reply @iniltous . There's no LLU involved, if that's what I'm understanding by SMPF.

We are on a Market A exchange with no LLU suppliers at all. The existing landline is supplied by TalkTalk via a BT WLR product, a legacy of them taking over our old supplier Onetel years ago, and the ADSL is from a small ISP via BTWholesale. 

I don't think there should be any problem with the actual transfer, but it would be helpful if I could be sure that the ISP has been notified, if only for billing purposes. I have a feeling their notice period is 30 days, so I am am expecting some overlapping billing - but I would rather it be two weeks rather than four.

I am trying to avoid complicating matters by not contacting them. After all, I shouldn't really have to.

[licquorice]

No, LLU or not is irrelevant. It is the fact that 2 separate companies are providing service on the same metallic path, i.e Talk Talk and the small ISP.

[locknut]

Thanks for that info, my mistake.

I'm sure I can remember LLU arrangements being described as SMPF in the past, it seems that with Openreach now at arms length, things have changed? Even BT/Openreach WLR and BTWholesale ADSL IPStream (now WBC?) combinations are now regarded as SMPF. Lots of stuff seems to have changed.

I didn't name the old ISP just to save confusion, it is a legacy product from Eclipse Internet, now part of KCOM. They no longer supply home broadband, but kept on existing customers. And no, I'm not in Hull!

So the question is, having received only one notification, should I give Eclipse a prod, or let sleeping dogs lie?

Also, can anyone tell me the name of the system that would be used to inform Eclipse of the migration, in case I do contact them?

[iniltous]

MPF , metallic path facility ,  or full LLU , the non BT provider provides all services, where as SMPF  is where generally a BTw provider provides the ‘dialtone’ the broadband part of a SMPF could be another company’s broadband kit or also a BTw broadband connection, the main factor being the dialtone is provided from the ‘BT’ local exchange.....the bigger players in the market that used SMPF in the past  , have long since moved to MPF, and tried to move their customers onto their own network completely, some took the decision to leave legacy customers as they were, if they didn’t want to change , some sold their off net customers to someone else, but stopped selling SMPF.

The fact that you pay 2 bills indicates SMPF, even if everything is BTw because it’s a market 1 exchange with no LLU provider equipment , ( LLU as a term encompasses both MPF and SMPF )

[locknut]

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@iniltouswrote:

The fact that you pay 2 bills indicates SMPF, even if everything is BTw because it’s a market 1 exchange with no LLU provider equipment , ( LLU as a term encompasses both MPF and SMPF )

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Yes, I understand that now, thanks for the useful explanations.

If it comes to having to nudge Eclipse (old ISP), do you know what the online system is called that they would have received notification of the migration?

Slightly concerned that they will deny all knowledge of what's going on...

[locknut]

I have been chatting to few members on thinkbroadband forum, concensus seems to be that contacting the losing ISP has more potential to cause problems than help. They advised that I should contact BT and explain that I hadn't heard from my old ISP.

However, it did flag up something else. Although I am a week away from activation, when I check on

 https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com

there are no open orders showing on my line. Is that normal?

Just to recap, I have had a "Sorry you are leaving" email and letter from my old landline provider, but nothing at all from my old ISP.

Would it be possible for a moderator on here look into my order, just to make sure there's nothing wrong that could cause problems next week?

[licquorice]

The mods are extremely busy at the moment and only intervene when all normal channels have failed in any case. I'm not sure that checking on something that may or may not be a problem is the best use of their valuable time.

[iniltous]

Making an assumption that your ‘fibre’ is FTTC,  its unclear why the BTw site doesn’t show any open orders , there must be the one that generated the ‘ sorry to see you go ‘ from TT, and presumably at least two orders should exist , a stop or stop renumber ( TT) and a start or start renumber (BT) ( depending on if the phone number you have currently is being kept )

It’s not necessarily the case that ‘BT’ could tell you much about orders for the other company’s involved , I would think that although it’s a common ordering system, it’s unlikely that an individual company can snoop on another company’s orders...but they could ( presumably) tell you if the BT order is still on track, but there is no reason to suspect it isn’t.
As already stated, the chances are the only potential issue is if Eclipse haven’t either been notified or have not acknowledged your ‘cease’ of their services , and they continue to bill you even after the physical disconnection ,or they insist on more notice than the landline , calling them to check I would suggest is low risk , but if risk adverse , wait until BT are suppling service then call .
My suspicion is that you probably should have received something as the ‘system’ you would think, takes into account a situation where a SMPF customer may change the broadband provider but keep the landline provider, if the aim is to stop all slamming , then Eclipse would presumably want the opportunity to stop the change over, by you responding to their ‘sorry to see you go’ communication, but that may make you think by calling them , it gives them a reason to get involved, and maybe mess up the migration.