Despite being told in 2021 that fttp would be installed in 2024. I still cannot get schedule!

[JudgeMeant]

We are on a retirement village (Est 1984) and were advised in 2021 that the telephone system with Care Line Emergency service would no longer operate with the new BT Fibre system changes and will have to be replaced.

We have 133 Independent dwellings and 6 commercial connections on site using all BT installed culvert connections and have now replaced the emergency Care Line system at a cost of £70k ready for fttp and hopefully VOIP. However installation dates have been shunted from 2023 -2024 -2025 - to a response that" we have no scheduled work in this area."  We now even have a brand new bband Mast built within 100 metres of our premises boundary.

We are advised already that all connections for Superfast Fibre have been completed to our exchange and there are a number of connections to cabinets terminating less than 1km from our site.

BT have taken our details several times over the period but have never written or messaged to update or advise of any progress.

Frankly an appalling service from our national supplier who still has a notional monopoly. Where do we go from here?

Who is actually accountable for this monumental **bleep**-up in scheduling and how do we get them penalised by authority?

I imagine we all ought to consider getting quotes for Fibre ToThe Grave where we might at least reasonably expect no problems with band width overloading delaying for installations!

[iniltous]

You don’t seem to know the difference between BT Consumer and Openreach , and what each is responsible for ….have you posted anything similar to this on any other CP (communication providers ) forums , as BT have no more or less influence where Openreach deploy their FTTP resources than say Sky or Talk Talk or any other CP , complaining about Openreach here on a BT Customer forum is no more useful as complaining on Sky’s customer  forum , yet I know you haven’t posted there .

Unless you were given something in writing from BT or Openreach  ( and you weren’t ) then any date you were given was nothing more than an estimate and certainly not in any way contractual, any aspirational date given by BT or Openreach , is exactly that ,  an aspiration, OR are not customer facing so unlikely to have given you you anything apart from generic dates ,BT are in no position to guarantee anything done by OR , that’s not how (Ofcom designed )  system works, BT and OR are functionally separate organisations.

The only BT deadline you need to be concerned with is ( that’s assuming you and anyone else you are speaking on behalf of are actually BT Consumer customers ) is the PSTN switch off due to be completed by January 2027 , this has absolutely nothing to do with when any individual address will get FTTP  , that is a unrelated Openreach program, IP telephony (BT call theirs Digital Voice ) doesn’t need FTTP , your  existing copper pairs can deliver it after the PSTN  switch off , your alarms etc are your and your alarm provider’s problem, but their intransigence was  responsible for the PSTN switch off being delayed until Jan 2027 because they said they weren’t ready even though this change has been known about for around a decade.

[Jeremy69a]

There may be reasons why BT Consumer and Openreach have different responsibilities/powers etc but it is a jolly convenient way of shifting blame and seems frequently used judging by these forums. Add to that Openreach don't generally talk to the public and you have the perfect unapproachable organisation!

[iniltous]

You do realise that the BT/Openreach separation was mandated by the regulator Ofcom and not a voluntary decision that BT thought was good for their business , it was in part because of the likes of Sky , Talk Talk etc who demanded that it be impossible for BT to be favoured by Openreach by knowing of things such as network replacement programs in advance , hence the ‘equivalence’ requirement that Openreach treat all providers the same , that’s why BT have no more information as regards Openreach plans than  Sky,  Vodafone etc , yet the posters on here that are not BT customers never ask the same questions of Sky or anyone other than BT, it’s a fact that BT , no more than Sky or Talk Talk or any other ISP decide when and where Openreach deploys its resources.

TBH , posts like this really only demonstrate the lack of understanding on how the industry is required to work by Ofcom , it’s by their design that Openreach are not customer facing , you speak to your ISP (Communication provider , CP …often the posters on here are not even BT customers ) as with the OP , who expects us to believe that of the 133 addresses in this retirement ‘village’ that they presumably speak on behalf of , that they are all BT Consumers , given BT are at about 20% market share, that is highly unlikely, even if BT has a larger percentage of retirees that the general market share , its been the case since the introduction of Openreach , you speak to your CP they speak to Openreach if it’s appropriate.

The  FTTP rollout is Openreach’s program, they issue public statements as far as percentage of homes covered , next areas to be targeted etc , what they don’t do is tell BT in isolation, if  BT did know Openreach plans then the rest of the industry would be demanding sanctions and fines to be imposed by Ofcom for that unfair relationship.

[Jeremy69a]

I'm sure it is working via design as Ofcom mandate. My point is that it is a. not a great model judging by comments and results and b. despite who determines how it runs one gets the feeling that passing the buck between Openreach and BT (and other operators) is both convenient and also not in the interest of the consumer.

[iniltous]

A few years ago , Openreach asked Ofcom , if it would be permissible, in certain circumstances like a reported fault with an existing customer of any provider ( obviously using the Openreach network)  whether that’s out if service completely or having intermittent problems , could Openreach provide the end user directly with  information regarding what the problem is , what the response will be and the likely timescales to resolution, instead of the current , you ask the ISP , they ask OR , OR reply to  the ISP , the ISP informs you ..the industry were asked by Ofcom to consider this ,the industry apart from BT said absolutely not , Ofcom said after industry consultation the majority didn’t want OR speaking directly with end users and that was that .

You say it’s not a great model, I agree , that you suspect that passing the buck is convenient, that can only be a one way street , CP’s  can pass the buck (blame OR ) but OR can’t do likewise, and the current system it’s not really in the interest of the consumer…. Surely your points are best taken up with the regulator, your position seems similar to the one that BT and  Openreach have suggested in the past but were  denied.

[tonysmini018]

As others have said, I think you may have got the PSTN/ISDN switch off confused with the FTTP build.

Two different projects.

The message you got about the old system not working does sound like it was for the PSTN systems, or possibly your retirement village has it’s own internal warden alarm system built and managed by BT that has come to end of life (possibly ISDN run).

One problem your residents may find is that some providers may not provide a digital voice/Voip telephony service if you have a care alarm present (Sky and Now for example). OFCOM put out a mandate that providers must be aware when their customers place an order if they have a care/fall/medical alarms and it is compatible (will work on DV/Voip) or will not be affected by the change. (Stand alone warden systems or SIM based alarms that don’t plug in to a phone socket.  If there’s no statement, the engineer cannot complete the install.

[36ULW]

For a start I think you’re getting the Digital VoIP Switchover confused with the rollout of FTTP.

Going onto VoIP doesn’t necessarily mean you will be going onto FTTP. Everyone in my Village was switched to VoIP last year but there’s zero plans for Openreach to build FTTP before the end of their Reach 26 Target. This is because almost 60% of my village is covered by Direct in Ground Cabling so the cost of building it far exceeds the cost for THP so unfortunately we’re in the last 10%.

The only times Openreach are duty bound by a commitment to install Fibre is for;

Private Ethernet Lines.

FTTPoD. Which is basically Private Ethernet again.

Community Funded Project.

So unless you’re getting one of the above 3 then when you get FTTP from Openreach is as and when they have the Budget and Resources to do it in your area.