Existing Copper Phone Cable

[mafcaw]

Hi 

Is the existing copper cable removed when BT upgrade you to full fibre. I live behind a former Methodist church and my property is accessed by a paved alley. When I built the house 25 years ago I brought the BT grey 52mm duct directly under the floor  into the hall and had all the wiring concealed before plastering. A draw cord was used to pull the original cable up, so I'm trying to establish if the copper cable can be used as a draw cord to pull the new fibre cable up the 22m underground duct, as if not the engineer will have fun  and I' cant really have or will accept surface mounted as the connection point is on the neighbours property on the opposite side to me. I've dug up part of the path for the engineer to gain access to the duct at my properties boundary, but have the top end to sort. 

Would love to talk through the installation  with Openreach so I could get any enabling works done before they arrive but cant find how to contact them

Thanks

Mark   

[licquorice]

Openreach are not customer facing and cannot be contacted directly. You will need to discuss the installation with the Openreach technician when he/she arrives.

[gg30340]

They could use the old cable as a draw string as long as the installer is happy to do that and that the duct is still clear and not collapsed at any point.

[iniltous]

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

Put your address in here , if FTTP is available it will show the installation process as either single stage or KCI2 , if there is no visible evidence of a duct on the exterior wall of the property it should be KCI2 , so it’s known not to be straight forward…..OR do occasionally use the copper cable as a draw rope but obviously that renders the copper service unusable should the FTTP service hit a snag leaving no service at all .

[mafcaw]

Hi

Thanks for that, it states:

Residential Overhead Feed alternative  L2C solution required 

[iniltous]

L2C is  ‘lead to cash’ and is what that  somewhat  odd abbreviation means , but in effect it tells Openreach SD there is ‘work’ for the installation people to do over and above a ‘normal’ installation before it can generate income , ‘ service delivery’ the installation group of Openreach will they will carry out an installation survey , that’s  the good part , OR know it’s a problematic address and are pre warned that it’s not straightforward , the bad news is that they also think it’s an overhead solution that’s required ( so service from an existing telegraph pole ) initially they will approach this as needing an overhead solution from the pole , potentially even installing new poles as carrier poles if there is no line of sight from the pole to your address  , that suggests your existing underground duct is not recorded, not that unusual if you installed it yourself . If your  copper pair distribution point is pole mounted presumably your copper feed runs down the pole into an underground duct , even though  the general area is predominantly fed by overhead means .

The only suggestion that can be made is when you order (should be a KCI2 , a two stage installation ) , is try to intercept the tech on the first visit and point out a duct exists, so they don’t invoke an overhead solution, if you miss this it just means on the (second visit ) day you would have to hope the tech sent along would explore the underground option…..you could always ask the ISP to put notes on the job for the tech to contact you in advance of any visit, first or second , but that’s not always done .

[mafcaw]

Thanks, that makes sense

Overhead line comes to wall bracket side of pub next to my entrance, down to a wall box at waist level then goes down into ground into duct up to my house (circa 25m.)  This duct then terminates at floor level inside hall (my other post) regarding the termination point. The external wall box was installed when I converted my house in 1999. It originally just fed my property but the pub have "pinched" the other spare copper pairs over time. 

I assume they know the first part is overhead from the notes (but it is Openreach hopefully (not Kellys who "pinched my line a few years ago by disconnecting it for a new pub connection! Openreach then tried to charge me £100 to investigate the fault when the wire was on the floor disconnected )

[36ULW]

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If the Duct comes up internally within the property providing it was done correctly the duct should’ve been sealed with a Gas Kit to prevent gases and or water leaking into the property.

The gas seal kits are a bag that wraps around the cable and then is inflated using a gas. They’re very tough and can be a nightmare to get off even when the duct is easily accessible.

If it is sealed correctly and is behind a wall I highly doubt they’ll be able to use the copper cable as a draw cord.

Also if the duct comes up inside the property I’m a bit confused as to why you would dig up your footpath to expose the duct outside, what is the purpose of that exactly?

[mafcaw]

Thanks for the advice. I don't think they installed a sealing kit at the time.

Outside if i needed an external junction box I could dig my alley footpath up outside my front door , splice the BT duct and bring a new bend up on the outside. At the bottom of my path which is between 2 buildings approx 1m wide I terminated the duct against the wall so the cable could then rise up the wall before meeting a junction box which then goes to the adjacent building overhead line.  Due an unknown existing concrete structure the ducts only 275mm below the surface. I've already exposed the duct at the bottom to make the engineers life easier. Just the house end to sort which in 1999 was all recessed into the walls before plastering. this terminates below the floating floor. If they were going to use the copper cable as a draw wire I may not have had to remove so much floor and wall to get at the top of the duct

Thanks for the assistance

[iniltous]

If your duct isn’t connected the the underground network (where gas can accumulate) then a gas seal isn’t strictly necessary….although not exactly the same scenario, if someone had a duct provided from the base of a pole because they objected (or it was impractical) to have an overhead wire from that pole ,  the duct isn’t part of the underground network, there is no real explosive risk so a gas seal isn’t necessary, it would be different if the duct originated from an underground chamber, that is connected to many other underground structures, so there is a potential risk of gas accumulation……sometimes a seal  may be provided in these type of situations, but more as a water seal if the property were at the bottom of a hill (for example) and the pole at the top to stop water ingress , basically water entering the duct at the pole and exiting it inside your home , if there isn’t a problem like that , a seal is unnecessary .