Small New Build Development - Complete Confusion!

[tstv]

Hello,

I am just about to complete a purchase of a new build / barn conversion on a small plot (no obligation for Openreach) where the developer was supposed to leave an Openreach connection.

The connection isn't showing up online, but BT has said over the phone they can provide a gigabit service. The developer is trying to confirm the address in teh Openreach database, although I don't think it will be done in time for teh house purchase. I'm a little reluctant to take BT's word over the phone that 'everything will be okay'. I may not have any choice.

I know the neighbouring properties (not the new builds) don't get full fibre. so is it realistic to expect I will. I know the developer has laid ducting and they say Openreach has made the connection, but I can't see an ONT at the property. I tried the Openreach website and got a very contradictory result (see below). 'No plans for your area' coupled with 'This is a full-fibre connection'.

 

[iniltous]

If the developer went through the usual ‘new sites’ process with Openreach , then an ONT should already be fitted and ready for an ISP to arrange services before you get the keys …if no ONT exists it’s unlikely that the developer has done this new sites process , and although on sites of 19+ plots there is no cost  to the developer to get FTTP installed , there is a sliding scale of costs for 1 to 19 units , so one man band type developers often don’t  not engage in the new sites process , in situations like this whatever the existing network is , is what you would get but even that needs evidence that the property ‘exists’ as a proper dwelling, by being on the Royal Mail site and being registered with the local authority for council tax etc .

https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/new-dam-(not-in-use-yet)/documen...

BT can only provide FTTP when Openreach /BT wholesale say it’s available, put your address in here (if it has a proper Royal Mail entry /registered address ) , it’s unlikely  that BT would say we can provide FTTP if there is no entry on this website for your exact address,  showing WBC FTTP  ,as it’s fundamentally the same data BT use to say Yes  or No , 

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

Post the  entire return for  your address if it appears .

[tstv]

Thanks @iniltous 

I tried the link you provided and the property address appears in the list (an improvement on the BT retail site where it doesn't show at all). However, when I click on it I get:

'We cannot determine broadband availability at this location. This may be a new address to which connectivity is not yet complete.'

The thing that's confusing me is there are a few neighbouring properties built a while ago. They cannot get full fibre because they only have FTTC (overhead copper wires). This makes me wonder whether I can really get gigabit. The developer says they have laid ducting in the new road and contracted Openreach (I'm yet to see proof of either and they are untrustworthy). The property is quite remote - maybe half a mile from a built up area.

If the developer is to be believed, I'm presuming Openreach would have needed to install overhead fibre across the fields from the nearest cabinet to the ducting point for the new builds / telegraph pole with copper for the other properties.

There's no ONT. In fact, if I don't get this connection, I won't have any comms and I'm worrying about a huge expense to me if the developer can't be trusted. Exchange is in the next couple of days. There's no point trying to add contractual penalties with the developer. They will be gone.

I'm going to have to decide whether I can trust the telephone conversation I've now had twice with BT. I'm hoping if they take the contract they'll have to honour it, regardless of what they might find when they arrive. They say the property is on the 'silver list', which is why I can't see it at bt.com.

[gg30340]

If you can not establish if there is a connection and or how long it will take to get one, if there is a good mobile phone signal at the property you could consider a mobile broadband package. Most of the big mobile phone companies provide them.

It is supplied through the mobile network to a mobile router which up to 20 devices can connect to and if you can get 5g the speeds are in the region of 125Mbps and cost about £40 to £50 a month for unlimited data.

[iniltous]

TBH , you seem to want to believe FTTP is available and that even if it’s not you will have some sort of obligation on BT to provide it …the evidence is pretty strong , FTTP isn’t available, what’s more I recon if you tried  , and BT mistakenly took your order for FTTP it would simply be cancelled by Openreach , no compensation would be due (explanation follows) 

Your assumption as to what will take place to get you served is not really accurate, if the general area is overhead service, it doesn’t really matter if the developer as obtained some duct from somewhere (it’s easily obtained ) and ran it to the curtilage of the site from the dwelling , hopeful that Openreach would somehow connect it up , thats not really likely and TBH it’s pretty clear they haven’t contacted Openreach , probably because of the contribution they would be required to make towards FTTP on a small (19 dwellings or less  ) development , that’s why I provided a copy of the rate card so you could see the kind of costs the developer has (you know the number of plots I don’t ) 

What will almost certainly happen , if you manage to get an order raised in the first place  , as a silver address is one that fails the address matching process , a non contractual date is given , this is really a ‘Openreach will come and have a look , no promises’ type visit , the property surveyed and if possible to provide from existing infrastructure that is put in place (a wire from a pole that exists) if extra infrastructure is needed depending on costs and complexity (if for example a third party wayleave is needed as private property needs to be accessed) that’s examined as far as practical with the potential of excess construction costs to be raised that you pay should the costs exceed a set limit .

[Kimberlin]

@tstv  to pick up on the point @iniltous  made about the ONT being in place before keys are handed over. I live on a relatively small new build development albeit 5 years old now, but it is fully serviced with FTTP and when we came to view the bare empty property, the ONT was already in place, everything was there. If it hadn't been, it would have been a massive red flag, indeed, if there hadn't been any sign of comms infrastructure in place, we wouldn't have proceeded with the purchase. Wife WFH, not having FTTP was not an option and the mobile signal is no where near good enough for fast reliable internet.

You might also want to consider Starlink if it is available in your area. Appreciate it is more expensive, but if your mobile signal is perhaps carp, then you may have to consider anything available/viable for the interim.

[tstv]

@iniltous 

Thanks. yes, of course there's a bot of hope about the faster service and mostly driven by what a BT agent had said about availability.

I had another call with BT this morning. I do get a different answer each time I call. Today it was to say they don't have knowledge of any service being available there. For anybody else reading this in the future with the same problem, a couple of things that may help:

1 BT is obligated to provide a voice / PSTN line. In my case, it would cost £70 to be set-up and can be rented on a paygo basis. This would elevate the property to BT's gold list and from there, it would at least be possible to place an order for the minimum broadband services.

2 BT has also made a request to Openreach to establish what's there today.

Thanks for all your help. 

[tstv]

@Kimberlin 

Thanks and it's exactly where I feel about the purchase if it doesn't have some sort of broadband service available. It's been a real slog to get the developer to make the Openreach connection. They initially told us to go mobile, including for TV!

Yes, ONT seems like a red flag, but if you look at my post above (after yours) BT will pick up what's needed if I get a PSTN line installed (worst case).   

[Kimberlin]

@tstv  I obviously incorrectly, thought that all new build developments must now have full FTTP infrastructure in place. I genuinely thought it had been like that for at least the last 5 to 7 years. Yours is a stark reminder for anyone involving themselves in the purchase of a new property, to ensure exactly what comms infrastructure is in place prior to purchase, because it can absolutely be a deal breaker for some.

[iniltous]

Unfortunately with the regulatory requirement for BT and Openreach to be functionally separate, (no casual conversations, no ‘I’ll call my buddy in planning and find out ‘ type of thing , what you are told by a customer service representative ( not just from BT but any provider that consumes Openreach products ) needs to be taken with a pinch of salt , and because of Ofcom’s  rules , you can’t speak to Openreach directly…. the rules around what OR will and won’t do , when FTTP is provided and when it isn’t , when costs are imposed and when they aren’t are very complicated, even most OR ‘techs’ won’t be particularly well informed on this (it’s a ‘planning’ thing not a delivery thing ) so it’s really unusual for an ISP employee to have any insight with pretty unusual scenarios like converted barns in remote areas .

Its true there is a USO placed on BT , a universal service obligation, but that isn’t a service at any cost obligation, Openreach bare ‘reasonable’ costs , this is taken to be £3400 before they impose ECC (excess construction costs ) the USO is now telephone and functional broadband and that is taken to be a 10Mb broadband download , and OR retain the right , if mobile communications are available and of the appropriate speed , to basically satisfy the USO by using a mobile phone/data solution .