relationship between Lothian broadband and BT Infinity

[peterbr]

Hello

Last month Lothian Broadband started to rollout FTTP in our area (Pathhead) . Digging up pavements and putting in fibre cable and cabinets. 

This seems to be a private initiative by Lothian Broadband, they own the fibre infrastructure and no other providers have access to it, not even BT. The result is that BT Infinity plans for rolling out FCCP have been pushed way into the future. Residents now have the choice to stay on FTTC using any provider that offers internet, phone and other services or switch to a FCCP for which Lothian Broadband seem to have the monopoly.

Looks like if BT wants to roll out FTTP, they have to dig up the roads again and install an other fibre infrastructure. This seems a massive waist of money and effort.

I am trying to understand how this situation is allowed to happen. It seems to go against the original breakup of BT to allow other provider having access to the tech infrastructure. 

Anyone who has some info on who is responsible for authorisation of such private projects to go ahead?

Regards Peter

[pippincp]

No other provider has access to Openreach's Tech Infrastructure, just poles and ducts (PIA). As Lothian are digging up roads it would appear they are not using PIA.

There are AltNets springing up all over the UK.

[peterbr]

Please can you check with local BT Openreach on the situation. It is my understanding that Lothian Broadband somewhere made a connection with the BT Fibre structure.

In our area all houses are still connected with copper to poles , FC cabinets are in close vicinity of the Ford exchange.
It seems Lothian Broadband are making FTTP connections between houses and the BT FC cabinets and put extra cabinets in place .

My point is that they seem now have a monopoly on FTTP connections , BT's plans for such a connection are practically taken off the table, leaving residents with a non competitive FTTP offering in the villages.

This does not seen right in the light of infrastructure providing telco services should be open to all tech service providers.

[Keith_Beddoe]

@peterbr 

Welcome to this user forum for BT Retail phone and broadband customers.

This is just a customer to customer help forum, everyone here, including myself, are just customers.

The only BT Employees are the forum moderators.

BT Openreach does not exist, its just Openreach

Nobody on this forum can help with Openreach, you would have to contact them yourself.

https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/when-to-get-in-touch-with-openreach

[pippincp]

I can see you don't understand how FTTP is provided and are making assumptions.

First FTTP isn't supplied by anyone from an FTTC cabinet, it doesn't have the capacity, it comes from the head end.

Openreach currently use G-PON  technology for FTTP, Lothian use XGS-PON.

"Lothian Broadband is extending a future-proof fibre network to over 70,000 premises across Scotland. The altnet is transitioning away from fixed wireless access, having Adtran design, build and commission a modern access and core network. Adtran is using its multi-gigabit XGS-PON access solutions and its technology partners for the core network build. Adtran worked to connect this new network to regional transit providers allowing Lothian Broadband to scale FTTP services across areas of Scotland that have been left underserved by other commercial fibre rollouts. The altnet maintains a target premise yield of 99% to ensure every community is connected to reliable Gigabit broadband, not just the areas that are easy to reach.

“When we made the decision to transition from fixed wireless access to fibre, the only choice was Adtran. The company offers industry-leading platforms and professional services for core network design, access network migration and transit provider management,” said Gavin Rogers, CEO at Lothian Broadband. “Pairing its FTTP technology with its partner’s core network infrastructure, Adtran is creating a complete end-to-end solution for us that can scale to meet our rapid build plans. Our new fibre network will ultimately allow us to become the broadband leader and allow the communities we service to be connected to new digital applications and economic opportunities.”

The Adtran end-to-end fibre broadband solution includes the Adtran 10G fibre access platform with XGS-PON technology and Adtran’s cloud software. XGS-PON technology will enable Lothian Broadband to build a scalable fibre access network to support customers’ capacity demands today and in the future."

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220914005147/en/Lothian-Broadband-Helps-Close-the-Scottish-... 

[peterbr]

Thanks very much for a detailed technical explanation.

It does seem to indicate that MidlotianBroadband now has the monopoly on providing fibre broadband based services in areas where this solution is put in place. Current providers using the openreach infrastructure are excluded from having access. 
Am I right in that if those providers would like to provide broadband , phone and streaming services they depend on Openreach to put in their FTTP solution. Meaning more cables need to be installed, roads dug up again. Seems such a waist of money and effort.

In our area the openreach exchange is just down the road, 800m, so not really a difficult to reach community for rolling out fibre based broadband

[imjolly]

As already posted FTTP does not come from the exchange or the green cabinets  many of the openreach installation are provided using the existing telephone poles so no digging required. How is your existing phone line provided to your home?

[jac_95]

@peterbr 

Lothian broadband is an alternative Network provider (AltNet) who have built their on full fibre network.

Lots of these types of companies popping up around the UK.

They have nothing to do with Openreach bar maybe paying to use some of their ducts and poles. The tubes of fibre optics and network however will belong to the AltNet which Openreach won't use and BT Consumer as a service provider probably won't use as a wholesaler.

This YouTube video gives a good explanation about the Full Fibre gold rush (the decade of full fibre) : https://youtu.be/ByFY-3Z0wxY

[licquorice]

@peterbr Its called free market competition.

[iniltous]

There are dozens of Alt Nets ( Alternative Networks ),  some areas may have the choice of several Alt Nets as well as Openreach, some may have one Alt Net and Openreach, some may have Openreach only , Alt Nets have free range  to build where and when they want , some will build completely new infrastructure, and will build and own their own ducts,  poles , joint boxes etc., some will  use PIA ( physical infrastructure access ) an arrangement imposed on Openreach requiring Openreach to allow Alt Nets to use Openreach poles, ducts , joint boxes etc.,   many use a mixture of PIA and their own infrastructure…no other network provider has to allow competitors to access their network, only Openreach have this imposition.

If an Alt Net builds  in an area and offers FTTP before Openreach or anyone else, it isn’t necessarily going to push Openreach plans for installation of their own FTTP back , in fact in some areas , to hang onto their existing market share , they start their own rollout earlier than originally planned, but in the short term , if this Alt Net is now in a position to be already offering FTTP service , and their business plan is to be a network supplier and the exclusive ISP on that network, that’s up to them, what’s up to you and your ‘neighbours’ , is to either make use of this network and become a customer of theirs, or not use them.

This Alt Net only has a monopoly in that they don’t have to allow others access to their network, but it’s not a monopoly in the accepted sense that there is nothing stopping either Openreach or another Alt Net entering the area with another competitor FTTP network , to compete with them .

FYI, this is a BT Consumer forum , not an Openreach one , so enquiries about the Openreach FTTP rollout are not answerable by BT , BT  have no more influence on where OR chose to build FTTP , and the likely  timescales , than any other company , like Sky or Talk Talk , that also  use Openreach   , currently BT only use Openreach networks , and are not likely to ever use anyone else , other ISP  may use multiple networks if that’s in their interest, but that would be an arrangement between the Alt Net and the ISP, nothing to do with Openreach or BT, there is no such entity as BT Openreach