Deceived on installation dates

[CliffRichard]

Hi there,

I booked an install of fibre for 19 December, this was moved to 20th etc. ultimately it went back to January so I cancelled and went with Sky who could do before Xmas. Open reach then cancelled the Sky order so I was forced to return BT.

I was promised an install of 23 December. However, my order arrived and said two interesting things, one was install was actually January. The other - and this is the query for the group - was some coding had been left in hidden amongst other text which said:

300.CancelOnly-BBTrueorCancelOnly.Customer

Which looks to me like developer language for “we will just advise this customer his order was cancelled so it will now unfortunately be 6 January”   
it also had something under saying we are sorry we are waiting and can’t change your order.

Keen to hear what that coding is for?

[Keith_Beddoe]

@CliffRichard 

This is just a customer to customer help forum, everyone here, including myself, are just customers.

The only BT Employees are the forum moderators.

As its Openreach that provide your service, you would get the same date whichever provider you use. Changing providers will simply  result in a later date, as you would lose your position in their work queue.

[CliffRichard]

Perhaps I need to elicit further. 

I understand this is a forum, but forum members will see their installation billing information, and will get delayed in install from time to time, I’m asking if anyone understands the outlined text above.

BT were the ones who cancelled the Sky installation without cause. Putting me back in terms of the date and making that contract invalid. When I contacted BT directly they said they had access to calendars that Sky would not, so a differentiated work queue, and would be able to do it earlier. I don’t believe they will do it earlier and it’s all a pack of lies.

So if anyone in here knows if BT actually operate a seperate work queue, and if they have ever seen a code like outlined above, please reply. Please Laos reply if you’ve heard of them ever bringing a fibre installation forward from your original planned date. All helpful for the OFCOM submission.

[Keith_Beddoe]

@CliffRichard 

It would be Openreach not BT Retail who cancelled your Sky installation. BT Retail and Sky, are just customers of Openreach. Openreach are a separate company.

https://www.openreach.com/about

BT Retail would not have access to any of Sky`s information, as that would not be allowed by Ofcom.

[iniltous]

As already stated if you have ordered a service with Sky , BT have absolutely no involvement whatsoever, if the Sky order is cancelled , that is something to discuss with Sky , any ‘implication’ that BT have somehow intervened is just wrong , and should anyone suggest anything other than that , they are either poorly trained or are being dishonest .
Openreach are the network supplier , obviously they can , if an ISP raises an order that cannot be fulfilled, either give a different date ( if the original date is unachievable ) or cancel the order , should the ISP have raised the order incorrectly . If ( for example) an incorrect date ( like a ready for service date ) was offered to ISP’s and subsequently changed by OR to the correct date, this isn’t under the the Telcos control, but dates offered with the best of intention can prove to be overly optimistic, or human error could  have simply entered an incorrect date , issues like this  affect all Telcos that use OR , and should a consumer cancel with one provider , and order with a different one ( both using OR ) the second provider isn’t likely to obtain a ‘better’ date , given that both are dependent on the date OR supply ( and they all use a common ‘ordering’ system ).
OR treat all Telcos equally, no provider gets preferential treatment.
About the only way to improve an installation date , which is something all providers have access to , is to expedite the order ( this costs the Telco much more than a standard install ) but if the order cannot be expedited, because the fundamental issue is much bigger than simply sending an installation engineer a few days earlier , ( if for example the network itself  isn’t   built yet ) , in this case , sending an installation engineer a little earlier, by using an expedited order , to move up the Openreach installation  appointment book list , won’t help , if the network is still being constructed.

As far as the system dialogue, between the ISP and the common ordering system, even BT employees can only speculate, it’s possible it’s simply an indication of a cancellation being customer ( the end user ) driven , or the cancellation being system driven , possibly the order being rejected by Openreach.

[CliffRichard]

BT and OpenReach are part of the same company. I think anyone who thinks they are separate are being naive: OpenReach will favour BT when it comes to services in a tiered system. People will argue this is not so, but as I say, naivety. OpenReach are a wholly owned subsidiary of BT. OFCOM would like BT to be distanced as a retail consumer, but evidently this isn’t happening fairly across the industry, if it were Sky would get the same throughput speeds on full fiber as BT: there isn’t an open and fair market here.

When I say BT cancelled the order I mean Openreach group given BT are the parent group originally.

Anyway, I’ve spoken to BT again and the following information was forthcoming:

- they admitted that the BT employee who sold me the service lied about the 23 December installation date just to get my custom.

- OpenReach are so far behind on installation because of new street fibre connections and strike action that the usual 2 weeks is now over 6 weeks.

- OpenReach cancelled my initial contract with BT for 19 December, then 20 December without any reason.

- OpenReach then cancelled by 20 December contract with Sky without any reason other than according to Sky “it’s because you’re a Sky client, we get less preferential treatment”.

- BT staff stated there is a known wholesaler / retailer issue between BT and OpenReach even though they are in the same corporation, and it is well known how to fix all these delays, but nothing is being done to remedy it.

so in summary, BT parent company, and BT retail and Opeanreach wholesale installations are charlatans because they cancel your order dates arbitrarily after the order is agreed (this is fraud in effect because they knowingly obtain your services by deception knowing they will move the date), and there isn’t fair market practices because BT control the networks they throttle third party performance and disrupt their connections whilst prioritising their own. This was the whole reason OFCOM intervened in the first place but the practices are still ongoing.

[imjolly]

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@CliffRichard wrote:

so in summary, BT parent company, and BT retail and Opeanreach wholesale installations are charlatans because they cancel your order dates arbitrarily after the order is agreed (this is fraud in effect because they knowingly obtain your services by deception knowing they will move the date), and there isn’t fair market practices because BT control the networks they throttle third party performance and disrupt their connections whilst prioritising their own. This was the whole reason OFCOM intervened in the first place but the practices are still ongoing.

---

If you have any proof to back up your claims then you should submit it to OFCOM or are these the usual unsubstantiated claims of someone who is not happy because you cannot get the install date you want.

do you think if any of your claims were correct that the other ISPs SKY, TT etc would sit back and not contact OFCOM and complain about BT Retail getting preferential treatment from openreach?

[CliffRichard]

It’s funny how people make assumptions before asking questions. “is this the usual..” “you need to complain to OFCOM”, “have you evidence”, etc.

no it isn’t the usual.

the complaint has already gone in to the Ombudsman Services along with the evidence as is the protocol. You don’t make individual complaints to OFCOM, you make them to the OS, and they raise broader issues or patters with OFCOM, and I would have thought someone so adept at dishing out advice would know?

have a great day.

[licquorice]

Its still unsubstantiated bordering on libelous  accusations.

[NeilO]

Hi Everyone,

Please keep it friendly.

@CliffRichard I'm really sorry to see your installation has been delayed, all orders are subject to survey and occasionally delays can occur for reasons that are outside of our control.  I would also like to reiterate that BT consumer don't get any preferential treatment from Openreach.

Thanks

Neil