We're making some changes to BBC recordings

[LucyfromTV]

Hi @zulu17 - if you see any issues with deep linking, please let us know as this has been extensively tested. If there's problems, then we'll work urgently with YouView and BBC to rectify any issues. 

[zulu17]

@LucyfromTV  I had a quick look last night at the backwards EPG for BBC channels and found instances of  (no play) symbol  on some programmes   expanded using info  and no watch on demand option and not found in universal  search  (for iplayer).

• For 3 instances two films and one Signed  documentary I opened up IPlayer and found all 3 programs there in iPlayer available  to play ( and found in IPlayer own search.

Not at home currently but one  way to spot any potential  issues is a quick whizz through the backwards  EPG for a few days ago and look for BBC programs that don't have play button showing then check whether the programs  that the EPG indicates is not available  on demand is actually  there in IPlayer.  The BBC data is normally  good but not in my viewing experience always perfect. 

[LucyfromTV]

Hi @zulu17 - first off, thanks for your comment and checking this. 

The play icon is unrelated to this change and can't be used to indicate if something will / won't be available on iPlayer post recording. This icon is to show what is currently available on iPlayer (either live or on demand). When you click on a programme that has the icon, it will open iPlayer for you to watch. 

Programmes that don't have the icon does not mean that it won't be available after the broadcast. 

Hope that helps. 

[Midnight_Voice]

@LucyfromTV 

@zulu17 was talking, I think, about past, not current programmes. I can see where a current programme may be recordable, but not playable live in iPlayer - i.e. not a programme you can watch on the iPlayer at the same time it is being broadcast - (but are there any such)?

But assuming there are, then shortly after the programme it either will or won’t be available on iPlayer. And if it’s available, it should get the play icon. And if not available, IP Mode users won’t be able to replay the recording.

There should therefore be a 100% correlation between the presence or absence of a play icon for any programme that finished more that 15 minutes ago as to whether we can watch it on the iPlayer or not, and also whether we can ‘play a recording’ of it made in IP mode.

And if there isn’t, then either the play icon is missing, although it should be there (as per what @zulu17 was saying) or there are going to be programmes on iPlayer that can be ‘played back’ if you have made a recording of them, but not if you just go into the iPlayer for them.

And I don’t think there are going to be any such.

Or is there a flaw in my logic somewhere?

[LucyfromTV]

Thanks @Midnight_Voice & @zulu17 ! To confirm the Play Icon does signify whether that programme is available on iPlayer: 

• Looking forwards - will show what is available on iPlayer currently, but doesn't show what will / won't be made available after broadcast 
• Looking backwards - what is currently available on iPlayer 

@zulu17 I'll privately message you to get the details of the programmes you're referring to. 

[chrisjp]

I know that broadcasters have a long term plan to get us all off aerials and instead getting our TV service via broadband streaming. However, at the moment a pretty full list of channels are available over the aerial and these you can record on your own equipment without a problem, and play them back whenever you want, AND fast forward through all the ad breaks.
What's not to like? Why mess around with streaming your TV when this simple alternative is still available?

[Andy005]

It's all about money @chrisjp . The broadcasters such as ITV don't like ads being skipped and now the likes of Sky have taken the Ryanair approach of charging add ons for everything such as ad skipping.

The BBC have always been restrictive with such things as not allowing their channels to be streamed on SkyGo and no +1s, it's use iPlayer or go without. This is probably another attempt to try to steer users more towards using iPlayer directly. 

Another reason for doing it is they know who's watching what and when, do they watch something new because of a tile they've seen etc. I'd guess that EE have no choice but to go along with everything because they have insufficient clout when it comes to numbers of subscribers.

It's just my thoughts but these changes aren't coming in for the fun of it.

[Midnight_Voice]

@chrisjp 

Adding to what @Andy005 says:-

IP Mode is great for people who don’t have a broadcast aerial, or have only a Freeview Lite transmitter they can get, or who, like us, have a room with no TV point and where an indoor aerial won’t cut it. We had a point put in, £150, not bad, but a Box Mini would have solved it.

Other than that, yes, from the customer point of view, why go away from the aerial and a box that can record it?

But you need to look at it from the supplier’s point of view, in this case EE TV. The Pro box is actually the last OTA holdout, as well as the last recording holdout; the Box Minis only come in IP Mode, with no provision for an aerial, and needing none of the tuning gubbins that goes with it.

Likewise the Apple TV box, which also coincidentally(?) frees EE TV from the shackles of YouView, with its independent development agenda, and all its limitations, like a particular set of apps you can’t change, much less add to.

The Apple box is expensive of course, but the Box Mini is cheap as chips, as it’s just an internet streamer from the hardware point of view.

What next? A Box Mini based round the EE TV app on the Apple TV, independent of YouView? An IP Mode-only Pro box? Or does it all stop here for the Pro box, with no further hardware iterations of any sort?

And lots of straws in the wind for IP Mode, like the new Freely service; IP Mode is still in its infancy and has a way to go, buts it’s the future. Unless the broadcasters overreach themselves, of course, like the BBC seem to be doing, and strangle it at birth.

[zulu17]

A further issue relates to BBC live broadcasts that are longer than. 2 hours. As I understand  for live broadcasts the BBC iPlayer allows watching the current   On Now. programme  from live. , or from start  (if less than 2 hours ago) or from a point  2 hours prior to current time  (if the programme started over 2 hours ago).

Thus  it appears that taking away the  playing  back recording and routing to IPlayer for playback  will  mean that the full programme will not be available to view until after the programme has finished  its live broadcast ( or possibly a further 15 minutes).

Some  EE customers  I believe experience this  on programmes such as BBC Breakfast.

I suspect that further instances will occur on BBC live sports programming that lasts over 2 hours and other live programming eg live House of Commons 

These are limits that IPlayer have and presumably the BBC could opt to address the buffer time  limit  on live  programming but it will impact some  EETV Ip Mode customers  if they don’t. 

[Midnight_Voice]

I think we’ve also found a flaw in Freely lately. Their literature can be interpreted to say that ‘hybrid mode’ is a mode where the full Freeview channels array can be obtained by tuning in broadcast Freeview to fill in the entries missing when the channel isn’t available in IP Mode; but actually, if you tune in broadcast mode, you get all, and only, broadcast channels, and nothing from IP Mode.

And hybrid mode, as this is called, is hybrid only in the sense that the EPG channels are  broadcast, but the player apps come over the internet. i.e. like any smart TV, or YouView box in broadcast mode.

Perhaps EE TV might like to beat Freely to the punch by offering a true hybrid mode on the Box Pro, with the gaps in the IP Mode channel array being filled in from OTA broadcast?